AR in 6.5 Grendel?

[indyjoe]

I've been trying to figure out if I should get some type of semi-auto .308, but getting in on the group buy lowers made me rethink things. Anyone play around with the 6.5 Grendel? I'm fine with reloading, which opens up many options with this round.

The ballistic coefficient of the rounds put higher energy bullets down range than a .308. This seems like the best of both worlds. I'm thinking about a 20-22" rifle. The only reference I've seen is AllenM's longer barreled up in the classified section.

 

[melensdad]

I have a 6.5 Grendel based AR15. Mine has a 24" barrel.

You can reach out and touch something a long way away, with very little recoil.

 

[6birds]

I have a Les Baer Model, real accurate, real low recoil. You can shoot Wyoming coyotes from Iowa! Try it, you will not regret it.

 

[DRob]

Nice

I have a Les Baer Model, real accurate, real low recoil. You can shoot Wyoming coyotes from Iowa! Try it, you will not regret it.

6birds. I think I heard that round go over my head while I was in South Dakota in June!

melensdad. What kinda' scope ya' got on that thar thang? I think you could shoot a way-far-away p dog with it!

 

[AllenM]

I believe 6.5 grendel to be a great round here are there forums
6.5 Grendel Fan Site :: For the 6.5 Grendel Aficionado

 

[melensdad]

melensdad. What kinda' scope ya' got on that thar thang? I think you could shoot a way-far-away p dog with it!

Thats one of them fancy laser range finding scopes with customizable turrets set to the trajectory of the 6.5 Grendel.

 

[indyjoe]

Thats one of them fancy laser range finding scopes with customizable turrets set to the trajectory of the 6.5 Grendel.

I'm betting if I have to ask the price, I can't afford it, right?

 

[melensdad]

I'm betting if I have to ask the price, I can't afford it, right?

If I utter the price, and my wife finds out, it will end up costing me even more

But it is and interesting scope. Gives you accurate ranging out to about 800 yards. The elevation turrets are interchangeable so it can be used for any number of different calibers, there is also a user definable turret that can be used to match a specific target or hunting load's trajectory.

I'm not a great long range shot but the scope makes it a lot easier to hit your target. Nothing is magic, but this is close.

Still, we are somewhat off topic, the real star of this thread is the 6.5 Grendel round. I think its pretty damn amazing. Without beating up your gun or eroding your chamber/barrel, this little round gives similar ballistics to the 7.62 Nato round, surpassing it at long ranges, not quite matching it at short range. It seems to be inherently accurate. The only downside is that it is somewhat hard to find in the marketplace. The other round that made a splash for a while is the 6.8 Rem SPC. Personally I don't like the 6.8 round at all. Its got a lousy ballistic coefficient, runs out of steam quickly and don't offer much advantage at closer ranges.

I know of some wildcats that would beat the Grendel, especially under 400 yards. The 300 WSSM is finally released by at least one custom gun maker. It duplicates a 30-06. The 358 WSSM is another that is worthy of consideration for shorter ranges, it is legal for deer hunting in Indiana and packs a wollup out to a few hundred yard.

Other factory chambers in the AR15 platform worthy of consideration in addition to the 6.5 Grendel are the 243 WSSM and the 25 WSSM. The 25 has more knockdown power but is not well suited for long range because the ballistic coefficient of the bullets is lacking. The 243 WSSM has some great bullets available to handloaders, factory offering are most suitable for hunting/varmint shooting. The downside to using the 243 WSSM for long range shooting is that the case is a bit longer than the Grendel case and that causes you to seat the bullets too deep into the cartridge body so you can't really maximize the accuracy of the round. A 243 WSSM might make a great bolt action long range round, but in an AR15 I think the 6.5 Grendel is pretty much the long range king. However at long range, the 6mm bullets out of a 243 WSSM are very very good, it is like splitting hairs between that round and the 6.5 Grendel round at long ranges. The 243 WSSM offers higher velocity and that cuts down a bit on drop and drift. 6mm and 6.5mm rounds optimized for long range shooting are both available. So those two rounds are a bit of a toss up in real world shooting.

I have considered rechambering an AR for a wildcat 6.5 Grendel Magnum, it would be a 243 WSSM case, with the shoulder pushed back to give the same body length as the 6.5 Grendel but with the fatter case of the WSSM. Neck it up to 6.5 and it would give you more powder capacity than the 6.5 Grendel due to the fat case body. Not sure that it would offer enough advantage to be worth all the costs.

That said, I like the 6.5 Grendel and don't plan on selling mine anytime soon.

 

[melensdad]

I've been trying to figure out if I should get some type of semi-auto .308, but getting in on the group buy lowers made me rethink things. Anyone play around with the 6.5 Grendel? I'm fine with reloading, which opens up many options with this round.

The ballistic coefficient of the rounds put higher energy bullets down range than a .308. This seems like the best of both worlds. I'm thinking about a 20-22" rifle. The only reference I've seen is AllenM's longer barreled up in the classified section.

Just got back inside a little while ago from playing with my 6.5 Grendel. I have to say this is just the nicest rifle I have for playing around. It has recoil that is only slightly higher than a 223/5.56 but downrange energy that approaches the 308/7.62. It fits and feeds easily in any AR15 lower, so its easy enough to simply buy a new upper and you end up with a dual caliber AR15 that switches back from a 223 to a 6.5 Grendel in under a minute without any tools. In a pinch you can feel the 6.5 G rounds through a standard 223 magazine, it may not be totally reliable under rapid fire conditions, but for slow fire, bench shooting, or even most hunting situations its not been any problem with my gun (Bushmaster lower, Alexander Arms upper, generic AR15 magazines)

The round is certainly capable of tiny groups on paper, I only wish that my shooting skills were up to the accuracy potential of the round/rifle.

 

[indyjoe]

I don't really get the idea of the 6.8 round. Just doesn't do much more on the short range, and has no long range performance. I just have to figure out which 6.5 upper to get. I'll probably build my .223 first, to get an idea of what is involved. Then build up a 6.5. I'm a newbie AR building, but comfortable with typical entry level gunsmithing.

What I haven't learned yet is to figure out what price level gives performance, not just more tacticool. I'm willing to pay for good parts, if they actually add to reliability and accuracy, to a point.

 

[melensdad]

I don't get the 6.8 Rem SPC either. It seems like a slightly better round than the current 223/5.56 but it really runs out of steam pretty quick and the overall cartridge length prevents using high ballistic coefficient bullets so basically its a short range round.

Then build up a 6.5. I'm a newbie AR building, but comfortable with typical entry level gunsmithing. . . I'm willing to pay for good parts, if they actually add to reliability and accuracy, to a point.

Realize that its more than just good parts. Real accuracy comes from making sure those parts are trued up properly in addition to simply using good parts.

 

[melensdad]

I've been getting some questions about my 6.5 Grendel and figured I'd go back into my files and dig out a ballistic chart, this is one of several that I have, it is a pretty good guideline to compare several different Grendel rounds, but also to compare the Grendel to some other rounds. Some of what I wrote in PMs was based on my recollections and may not have been 100% accurate, this chart is better than my memory!!!

I couldn't figure out how to post up a PDF file so I converted it to JPG so it may not be as easy to read in this format but I hope this helps some of you with your rifle choices. Honestly I think that many of the current rounds are pretty darn good so choosing between them is really pretty much splitting hairs.

 

[zsm]

does anyone have a pic for comparison?

 

[indyjoe]

does anyone have a pic for comparison?

Of the two rounds 6.8 and 6.5?

 

[melensdad]

does anyone have a pic for comparison?

Here is an excellent photo (wish I had taken it) it shows why the 6.5 Grendel has such superior ballistics. The 6.5 rounds are long and sleek and the 6.8 rounds are fatter and stubbier.

Refer to the ballistic chart a couple posts above, you'll see that a 6.5 Grendel can push a 123 grain bullet faster than the 6.8 can push a 115 grain bullet. The Grendel's case is shorter and fatter and that allows for more efficient use of powder, it is also very inherently accurate as the case is very similar in proportions to bench rest competition cases.

Ballistically the Grendel rounds are very slick bullets, hovering one side or the other of .5 BC, some very comfortably reach .54. The 6.8 rounds run under .4 BC so they tend to run out of steam very quickly because their drag coefficient is simply not good enough to allow them to slice through the wind.

On ballistics alone, the 6.5 Grendel carries 500 Ft Lbs of Energy out 50% farther than the 6.8 Rem SPC despite the fact that at the muzzle the Rem has more velocity and more energy.

 

[indyjoe]

On ballistics alone, the 6.5 Grendel carries 500 Ft Lbs of Energy out 50% farther than the 6.8 Rem SPC despite the fact that at the muzzle the Rem has more velocity and more energy.

The other advantage is that they ARE slower in the barrel. Not only do your get more energy down range, but less barrel wear because that energy comes from ballistic coefficient, rather than brute force.

 

[melensdad]

The other advantage is that they ARE slower in the barrel. Not only do your get more energy down range, but less barrel wear because that energy comes from ballistic coefficient, rather than brute force.

Well I will agree that there is no evidence that the 6.5 Grendel is hard on barrels, in fact it seems to be gentle on barrels. But that said, I'm not sure that the 6.8 is a barrel burner either, I suspect it is not.

The reality is that the 6.8 is better than the Grendel out to maybe 50 or 100 FEET, but get beyond that and the brick like shape of the thick shouldered 6.8 bullets slow them down and they have less energy and less velocity than the Grendel before you reach 100 yards. Honestly if I was in a close quarters battle with a bad guy (like INSIDE a house) then I'd probably want the fattest bullet I could find, and that would mean the 6.8 Rem would be a better choice. But by the time the bullet begins to fly out your front door and gets to the roadway in front of your house, the 6.5 Grendel is already showing itself as the better round.

Sadly neither is legal for deer in Indiana, but both would do a great job. For coyotes I'd much prefer the Grendel with its ability to reach out long ranges and if used with the correct bullets would do a great job of killing the dogs without destroying the pelts.