Another toy to day dream about

[40calPUNISHER]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZLlYOpqQ4&feature=related"]YouTube - Safir T14 (shotgun) Atis Testi[/ame]

 

[Scutter01]

Wish any of my mags were that easy to load.

 

[turnandshoot4]

That is awesome! You should only need an upper right? Which isn't a firearm right?.......................

 

[VUPDblue]

That is awesome! You should only need an upper right? Which isn't a firearm right?.......................

Correct. I have heard of some tinkerers doing this, but that looks like a production-worthy setup. Hell, even the bolt group looks custom! I would probably pass on the .410 setup but if I could get at least a 20ga to work, then I'd have to have one! Imagine for a minute a shotgun upper on my M16 lower...FULL OF WIN!!!!

 

[epsylum]

Correct. I have heard of some tinkerers doing this, but that looks like a production-worthy setup. Hell, even the bolt group looks custom! I would probably pass on the .410 setup but if I could get at least a 20ga to work, then I'd have to have one! Imagine for a minute a shotgun upper on my M16 lower...FULL OF WIN!!!!

Would a 20 ga. even fit the magwell?

Oh and anything on your M16 lower is automatically (nice pun huh?) full of win.

 

[turnandshoot4]

I agree. The home defense capability is amazing. Now if I could just find where I put Rock River's number..................

Now I can just hope for one of these to come out and I don't have to buy a semi auto, mag fed, ak style shotgun!

 

[ashylarry]

I agree. The home defense capability is amazing. Now if I could just find where I put Rock River's number..................

youd be waiting a year for anything directly from them

That would be badass if they made a shotgun upper, would be my next purchase.

 

[VUPDblue]

Heck guys, WE could make that happen. We'd just need a mill to get the dimensioning done for the bolt and come up with a magazine setup that would work. Based upon that video they are using a standard upper with a custom barrel and it appears to be blowback operated. I just wouldn't personally go to the trouble for .410.

 

[4sarge]

Safirarms Industrial Co.

 

[ashylarry]

Wish they had prices.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Heck guys, WE could make that happen. We'd just need a mill to get the dimensioning done for the bolt and come up with a magazine setup that would work. Based upon that video they are using a standard upper with a custom barrel and it appears to be blowback operated. I just wouldn't personally go to the trouble for .410.

I'm interested. 20g or .410, either way. Of note... if it will take .410, it will also take .45 LC, right? Collosally epic win. Keep me in the loop on this. I've been trying to decide what to do with my AR lower, and I think this answers the question, so long as it's affordable.

Blessings,
B

 

[turnandshoot4]

youd be waiting a year for anything directly from them

Aint that the truth. I have been waiting a long time for the lar-8 varmint. They are going into production now though.

 

[Benny]

I'd buy one.

 

[zsm]

410 g? i cant tell from the video

 

[baldmax]

I would get one in .410. It would be an attention getter at the range.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I would get one in .410. It would be an attention getter at the range.

I'm thinking .410 slugs at the range, but probably birdshot as a HD weapon. Not thinking that there's going to be many pellets if I went with 00 buck. An AR-15 in .410 with a laser, though... I can't imagine many BGs would try to keep coming.

Curiosity for the NFA guys: If we did this, could it be made legally in IN with a short barrel, or would that violate state law? Obviously, it would need a tax stamp as a SBS/SBR, but since it would be manufactured as a shotgun upper on an AR platform, I'm not sure if the law on "sawed-off" would apply or not.

Thoughts?

Blessings,
B

 

[bigcraig]

Curiosity for the NFA guys: If we did this, could it be made legally in IN with a short barrel, or would that violate state law? Obviously, it would need a tax stamp as a SBS/SBR, but since it would be manufactured as a shotgun upper on an AR platform, I'm not sure if the law on "sawed-off" would apply or not.

Thoughts?

Blessings,
B

If you started with a virgin lower reciever, or one that was registered as a pistol, you could build a .410 AR pistol. If you go this route there would be NO NFA tax or paperwork.

However, there might be a NFA rule on smoothbore pistols but I can't recall right now, I will try and do some research on that aspect later. To give you an example of what I am refering to, lets consider my Serbu. It is classified as an AOW because it is a smoothbore pistol. But IIRC, the NFA rules also mentions that it falls in the AOW class due to the caliber as well, as technically a 12ga is bigger than .50cal. So if you apply that silly NFA logic, you may very well be able to build a .410 AR pistol.

Let me do some research on it, as it poses an interesting question.

Now as far as my feelings on the .410 AR config in general, I will pass, if we could do a complete build up of an AR12 type gun, I AM IN. But that is A LOT of work and design time and not only will you need to design the gun you will also need to design magazines, and that is almost as difficult as designing the gun.

 

[VUPDblue]

If it were a pistol, it would have to have a rifled bore. Look at the Taurus Judge. The only thing keeping that legal is that it has a rifled bore. If you built this .410 upper so that it would also fire the .45LC round, then it could be shortened all day long because, technically, it is not a firearm "made from a shotgun". Now all that being said, this would present a VERY gray area in Indiana law.

 

[Bill of Rights]

If you started with a virgin lower reciever, or one that was registered as a pistol, you could build a .410 AR pistol. If you go this route there would be NO NFA tax or paperwork.

However, there might be a NFA rule on smoothbore pistols but I can't recall right now, I will try and do some research on that aspect later. To give you an example of what I am refering to, lets consider my Serbu. It is classified as an AOW because it is a smoothbore pistol. But IIRC, the NFA rules also mentions that it falls in the AOW class due to the caliber as well, as technically a 12ga is bigger than .50cal. So if you apply that silly NFA logic, you may very well be able to build a .410 AR pistol.

Let me do some research on it, as it poses an interesting question.

Now as far as my feelings on the .410 AR config in general, I will pass, if we could do a complete build up of an AR12 type gun, I AM IN. But that is A LOT of work and design time and not only will you need to design the gun you will also need to design magazines, and that is almost as difficult as designing the gun.

Thanks for the replies, guys. Craig, with respect, it's already been designed- We could get mags from this company, possibly to measure for dimension to do our own. I just went and measured, and a 20g will barely fit an AR-15 magwell (without a mag). A 12g almost certainly would not, but they've got a mag that will support .410 shells (9 at least, if I counted correctly).

I have an AR lower. I have a mag for it. (yes, one each.) I am by no means in the slightest bit experienced in this area, and that I will admit freely, hence my questions. I AM interested in this build, and I'd like to learn. My comments above are based not on experience with the AR platform, but only on the fact that we saw the bloody thing work. If your experience with it (including possibly a different size AR platform lower? ) tells you that a 12g AR is do-able and that's something you want to do, I'd think that doing any AR-based shotgun would lend itself to any other. (That is, if you go to do a 12g, dimensioning down to a 20 or a .410 (or less so, doing a .410 and dimensioning up to 20 or 12) would have most of the work already done.)

If this is incorrect, I look forward to reading the correction. Either way, I look forward to the feedback.

Blessings,
B

 

[bigcraig]

BoR, the chances of you getting ANY components from these folks is next to impossible, look where those folks are.

As far as the import-ability, the ATF has some very silly rules regarding the sporting-ability of gun like this. Look at the Saiga 12, 20, 410, those guns are only allowed in the country due to the way they are configured, ie: no pistol grip, low capacity magazine.

Also, the .410 round itself just isn't my cup of tea, as the ammo itself is not very versatile and is just as expensive, if not more, than 12ga.

Now all that being said, and add to the fact I DO have a converted Saiga 12 comming soon along with a 20rd drum for it, I AM an AR guy through and through and if a good quality AR12 with good capacity were available, I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Also, VUPD is correct on the NFA aspect of building one to short barrel configuration.

For example: If you could get the parts to build this, which will be next to impossible, same goes for getting the specs to to it on your own, here are your options and things to remember.

1) The gun would have to have an 18" barrel, remember it is still a shotgun.
2) You could build it into an AOW using a virgin AR lower, but it will cost you the $200 making tax. But remember, in IN it cannot have a buttstock, ever, it will be just like my Serbu, pistol grip only. So it will be a semi-auto .410 pistol.


For me the end result is just not worth the effort, as I am just not a fan of the .410 round. But please, don't let my feelings or remarks stop you from achieving your goal to have this configuration, it is neat, just not for me.

Good Luck
Craig