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  • yellowhousejake

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    All,

    I have been working with Camp Atterbury - Muscatatuck Range (I think that is what they are calling themselves now) to gain access to the KD ranges for Revers's Riders.

    We do plan to offer full distance events.
    We will announce here when that happens.
    If you do not hear from me, I am working on it like the energizer bunnie.

    DAve
     

    nad63

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    Good to hear. Really looking forward to shooting there again. Keeping my fingers crossed that everything works out. Keep up the good work I know others including myself appreciate it. This is a great opportunity, within an hours drive of Indy (more like 45 mins), to shoot center fire calibers out to 400/500 yards. This is where the theory and reality can come together for those of us that have limited access to "long" distance shooting. It does take LOT of effort to pull this off though so thanks in advance.
    Nigel
     

    yellowhousejake

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    After a good bit of communication back and forth, letters of recommendation, sample COF submitted, Revere's Riders have been approved for Atterbury Events in 2015. We need to work out details on insurance, same thing I had to do for a previous organization. No biggie, just time consuming.

    I feel confident we will be there this year, and the next, and the next...

    Also, keep in mind we have another KD range in Indiana, Redbrush. We have been there before and hopefully will be again. Mudcat has a great range down there. It should not go wanting for the sound of KD goodness.

    DAve
     

    SmileDocHill

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    YHJ! I want to thank you as an American for the energy you put into such good organizations that get out a great message. I also want to thank you as a selfish guy who loves field shooting at longer distances! :)::patriot:
     

    Hop

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    YHJ! I want to thank you as an American for the energy you put into such good organizations that get out a great message. I also want to thank you as a selfish guy who loves field shooting at longer distances! :)::patriot:

    Dittos! Laying on those berms in the heat, the rain, the snow... they started feeling like home. I'd hate to never get a chance to go back there.
     

    cbhausen

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    Can someone chime in here with some basic info for newbies? I've never done nor have I worked a KD event... How many rounds to bring, what to expect, basic stuff... I've heard these are "revealing" in certain ways...
     

    natdscott

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    I have been working with Camp Atterbury - Muscatatuck Range (I think that is what they are calling themselves now) to gain access to the KD ranges for Revers's Riders.

    What's this about?! You're talking about the KD 3,4,5,6 ranges at Atterbury JMTC, correct? Those are not referred to as Muscatatuck-anything, as far as I am aware.


    KD shooting at full distances is revealing to the shooter that has only spent time on sub-100 yard stuff, or on sheltered ranges, in a variety of ways. The effects on the unaccustomed shooter of just BEING on, and working through, a full day at a large KD ranges like CAJMTC can be enough to cause a change in performance. Until a person gets used to the idea that zeroes from day to day, and shot to shot, will NOT be the same to score a centered hit, and they get used to operating the range and walking all over 1,000 yards back and forth, it CAN be a real eye opener for what a Shooter looks like...the learning curve can be pretty steep for the first couple matches, but in no time at all you catch up, and shooting 600 yard MR targets is not a lot different, psychologically, than shooting 50 yard.

    What we've seen as far as performance goes is that "the math" that is dictated when qualifying at 25 or 50 yards on reduced targets just doesn't hold up at 500+ yards. There are a lot of reasons for this, some of which I hit above, but for a little while (or forever, depending on how sharp an edge you have), it can be a lot like work. Not a big deal, it's still an awesome time, but expecting to shoot 98% at 50 yards, then turn around and do the same at 500 yards is an unrealistic expectation for an unseasoned full-distance shooter. Shooter's technical knowledge, position quality, rifles, sighting systems, ammunition performance, all begin to get rigorously tested past about the 300 yard line in any kind of a challenging set of conditions.

    Here's an example: just about any decent rimfire target ammo shoots well at 50 yards, provided the rifle likes it okay. The same CANNOT be said for 100 yards, and we all know it. I can shoot the same scores at 25 yards with Eley Target as I can with Match EPS. Move out to 200 yards though, and the differences in grades of ammo becomes rapidly apparent to even a layman. The same is true of every other aspect of the shooting equation.

    Far as what to bring, uh...le me see:

    Cased rifle
    ECI x2
    Mat
    Scope
    Stand
    Mags x4 & Spare
    Bob Sled
    Sling
    Web Sling Spare
    Coat
    Shooting glove(s)
    Timer
    Boots
    Smoker/Candle and Lighter
    Clipboard & Rubber Bands
    Data Book
    LR Chart/Target Plot
    Boonie or Baseball cap
    Toolkit
    Towel
    Shooting Glasses
    Plugs
    Muffs, ideally the electronic type

    1 Gallon water + 2x 32oz Gator-drinks, minimum
    Food that is proven NOT to make you sick or need to go to the bathroom
    Bugspray
    Sunscreen
    Toilet Paper
    Small med kit

    Backpack to go to and from the pits
    Cart of some form to put everything else in and schlep it around the range
    Tarp and bungie cords enough to cover your cart when it rains


    That's a start on a list.

    -Nate
     

    grunt soldier

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    Nate that is a great list for a hipower event like you shoot and instruct at. However Reever's Riders are a much more basic bare bones kinda group. Most that stuff won't do much for you at our KD events. We aren't out there shooting trying to get the absolute most accuracy possible like that. We are a field shooting group and keep it to the mind set of 4 moa! Rack grade rifle and surplus ammo type set ups. We do a lot of walking and humping back and fourth attempting to get in a lot o AQT's.

    At these events which I have shootbossed and helped work your basics are all you really need. as Ol'Huff says everything you need and nothing you don't. We try to get in as many AQT's as possible and you carry everything. So the more weight you have the more you feel it. Everything should fit inside a pack and be carried that way except your rifle.

    -Rain gear. it's light just bring it incase
    -water- you will walk a several miles through out the day and need to stay hydrated. a nice camelback blatter or several bottles.
    -Food- bring portable chow. power bars or dry foods or the tuna packets that have all you need. vienna sausages etc. nothing you have to cook
    -Rifle- bring a good rifle. one you know works and don't care if it gets dirty, wet, or scratched
    -Mags- some say 2 I say 4 it's just easier that way but 2 at a bare minimum
    -Ammo- you only need to carry 1 days worth of ammo but each AQT is 40 rounds. you will have sighters at each new berm probably 6 rounds. total 250 per day
    -tools for sight adjustment and general work. a leatherman or the such works great and is on most folks belts as is
    -Binocks or a spotting scope. Nothing huge needed to see the markers 10x is great. I used a vortex monocular last time and it was getting tough at 400
    -Backpack to carry all the gear and food in. Nothing special lots carry a standard army ruck with no frame.
    -Sunscreen though it can be left in your vehicle /chapstick also
    -bleeder blow out kit- I bring my first aid kit but a lot don't. Nothing special but just in case.
    -Clothes- mainly what your wearing and but a boonie or billed hat. and me personally extra pair of socks in a zip lock bag
    -Ear and Eye protection.
    -Data book or just plain old penn and paper. RobbieMQ did a cool print off you can bring. I'll see if he can post it.
    -towel to wipe off yourself and gear.

    Even some of these items can be left in the car if it's a nice day or whatever. but you carry everything you brought so don't try and bring everything including the kitchen sink.

    For those looking for some advice on what to do. Just show up with a positive attitude and be hydrated. If you start out dehydrated you will never catch up. start drinking extra water a few days before. Be in the mindset to walk and carry your gear. Make sure you right your information down so you can understand it when you get back to that position. So you know your come up's or downs at each position regardless. It's a great event. when it hits the books sign up fast as it fills up fast as lots of people want to test their gear and learn too shoot out to 500 yards.

    Also remember this is a military base so no pistols or anything else are allowed on the base and you will be in trouble if caught with them. Don't keep them in your car thinking you will get away with it as we have had them search vehicles and people.
     

    natdscott

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    ...this is a military base so no pistols or anything else are allowed on the base...

    Can't emphasize that enough. DO NOT.

    ONE selfish action by ONE civilian from ONE group that is allowed to shoot there could result in the revocation of ALL civilian shooter's privileges FOREVER.

    It has happened elsewhere, and it is THEIR sandbox where your civilian rights and rules DO NOT MATTER.

    -Nate

    Postscript: Grunt, we pretty much said the same stuff, but I did forget raingear...worst conditions I ever shot a match in were at Atterbury, so I don't know why it skipped my mind. I honestly just took my regular HP list, and modified it a little. There is nothing on that list that I have not used, and/or use every time I go out, so I stand by it. We'll see whether or not my gear is unnecessary soon enough.

    Now, I imagine some of you know who I am by this point and obviously some of what I do, but what you may NOT know is WHO I am and why I'm here. To that end, I think it is prudent that I let you know that I am coming to you all in a non-antagonistic fashion; I want to see how you are doing things, and what is being taught. Highpower shooters are doing exactly the same type of shooting, and yet Nationwide, there has been a sort of reluctance for the two sets of shooters--NRA/CMP & Revere/Appleseed--to mix. I'd like to figure out why, and to what extent, that is the case, at least locally.

    For lots of reasons, it would be beneficial for all the locals to be able to come together, shoot a 200-1,000 yard Marine Corps COF, and still have enough respect and admiration for everybody else there to go get some BBQ after the light fades too much to shoot. For even more reasons, it is critical that a grassroots program exist to teach the basics of marksmanship at a level of cost and equipment that is not prohibitive to everyone that whats to learn, as National "Rifle" Association USED to care about. Highpower and conventional smallbore are too specialized and too narrowly focused to accomplish that part of things, in my educated opinion, and so I am trying to figure out who IS to fill the gap in the line.


     
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    gregkl

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    For those looking for some advice on what to do. Just show up with a positive attitude and be hydrated. If you start out dehydrated you will never catch up. start drinking extra water a few days before. Be in the mindset to walk and carry your gear. Make sure you right your information down so you can understand it when you get back to that position. So you know your come up's or downs at each position regardless. It's a great event. when it hits the books sign up fast as it fills up fast as lots of people want to test their gear and learn too shoot out to 500 yards.

    The scope on my AR does not have anything more than a "German" reticle. Will this make it nearly impossible to determine holdovers? And I guess, I should ask, will a decently equipped AR be okay to shoot at an event like this?
     

    grunt soldier

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    You don't need hold overs sir. You will just have to dial your scope at each stage for the come ups and wind adjustments. The key is to know what your adjustments are. Most are marked on the turrets 1 click= 1/4 moa or 1 click = .1 mil etc. Even if its not marked we can figure it out pretty easily using square targets at 25 meters. If you need help let me know. I can talk you through it and hook you up with the needed target.

    Any reticle will.work and the AR is probably the most common rife on the line sir. You will be good to go.
     

    gregkl

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    You don't need hold overs sir. You will just have to dial your scope at each stage for the come ups and wind adjustments. The key is to know what your adjustments are. Most are marked on the turrets 1 click= 1/4 moa or 1 click = .1 mil etc. Even if its not marked we can figure it out pretty easily using square targets at 25 meters. If you need help let me know. I can talk you through it and hook you up with the needed target.

    Any reticle will.work and the AR is probably the most common rife on the line sir. You will be good to go.

    Well, you were a great help to my wife and I when we attended the Appleseed(is it okay to say Appleseed?:)) in Atlanta so I have no doubt you can help me with longer distances.:)
     

    RobbyMaQ

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    The scope on my AR does not have anything more than a "German" reticle. Will this make it nearly impossible to determine holdovers? And I guess, I should ask, will a decently equipped AR be okay to shoot at an event like this?
    I'd add Techres's advice of bringing a rifle known to you. Don't do like I did my first time and buy a new scope the week prior, only to find it's complete junk. Working with a completely familar gear takes a whole lot of guesswork out of your adjustments
     

    Hop

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    I've done almost every Appleseed KD event at Atterbury and have thinned down to a minimalist kit for "that type of event". It would be totally different for an HP event or even during some kind of real threat.

    Here's what I carry for an Appleseed KD (day 1 & 2 will be different):

    I have a nice molle backpack with good comfortable straps & a camelback pouch
    gun with known zero + a day's worth of the same brand ammo
    3 mags = 1 5rnd, 1 20rnd black, 1 20rnd fde
    Data book with 2 pens with a ziplock
    a full day's worth of water + snacks + lunch (food at the bottom of the backpack. ammo and mags on top)
    pouch for spent brass
    trash bag
    small pack of baby wipes & some kind of small dry towel
    travel size sunscreen
    electronic ears
    eye pro
    hat
    If I have optics & ear pro that need batteries then I'll bring extras + a small screwdriver or coin
    I'll bring/wear rain/snow gear but my gun don't care 'bout the weather.
    I'll bring a smart phone with a weather radar app, balistic calc, etc but only use it for fun. maybe a 2nd battery/charger.
    I sometimes add a light camp chair, spotting scope or binocs for day 1. I don't normally carry this extra stuff on day 2.
    No shooting mat, no cart, no camp chair, no umbrella, no boresnakes, no oil, no cleaning rods, no tools. This stuff might be with me but stays in the car.
     

    Hop

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    Equipment & kit aside...
    I hate to say it but it is what it is. The AS program refuses to talk in military terms but the "field rifleman" technique they teach is what you might need to use to defend yourself out in the field <- duh. Hits in the black on the targets count. Only hits in the black count. If it was a tango trying to shoot back at you that's the only hit that matters. It works out to 4MOA or ~16 inch target @ 400 yards. That's man sized. That's what you will learn to hit. Changing positions, mags, shooting against the clock, running from the 400 to 300 yard berm are things to induce stress and see if you can still effectively perform basic marksmanship shills.

    Red dots are fine, irons are fine, German reticule is fine, scopes are fine. The instructors will help you get into the black at all distances with whatever you bring. You will learn come ups at distance and either dial turrets or hold over POI. I don't think dialing turrets on a red dot or using a front sight tool on a carbine is worth the hassle. Just learn the holdovers for your gun/ammo combination. My EOTech went down during a KD at Atterbury. I had to switch to flip up irons and used holdovers the rest of the day. My half century old eyes are not the greatest but I've done fine there using irons a couple times.
     

    gregkl

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    I'd add Techres's advice of bringing a rifle known to you. Don't do like I did my first time and buy a new scope the week prior, only to find it's complete junk. Working with a completely familar gear takes a whole lot of guesswork out of your adjustments

    My rifle is known to me but only for a short while. I don't have much opportunity to shoot. I have done a shoot at friends 200 yard range once and hope to do it again in September. But I don't get out much. I need events like these to force me away from my home reno for a day or two to do something different.

    As far as knowing my scope, well it's all new to me. When I was younger and hunted, I picked up the rifle went to the range to make sure it was zeroed for 100 yards and went hunting. .35 Remington in Michigan was on to any distance I would be shooting a deer in the dense woods we hunted.

    Long distance for me 200yds+
     
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