Let's talk 3-gun/multi-gun

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  • slow1911s

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    My normal job (and no - selling mags, knives and scopes isn't my normal job) gets in the way of most of my shooting. But when I do get to shoot, a 3-gun/multi-gun match is just about as fun as it gets for me.

    I'm seeing lots of people buying up ARs and some shotguns. Has anyone thought about heading out to a 3/multi-gun match? There's one at Atlanta Conservation Club this weekend (btw).

    For those who don't know, 3-gun and multi-gun in Indiana is basically run under USPSA rules. There are some other rules (e.g. IMGA), but that's a topic for later on. The games are very similar in terms of equipment, but how they're administered is quite different.

    Here's what is the same:

    • Rifles - generally .223/556 NATO AR15's, AK varients, M1A/M14s and pistol caliber carbines.
    • Shotguns - 12ga semi-autos (Remington 1100/11-87, Winchester SX2, Benelli M1/M2, Browning Gold) or pumps (Remington 870, Mossy 590, Benelli Nova)
    • Pistols - semi-autos 9x19 or larger. Glocks, XDs, S_Is. You can and will see revolvers from time to time.
    Here's what's different

    • 3-gun - One gun per stage. On each stage or COF (there are generally 4-6 stages in a match) a different gun is shot. Most of the time it is 2 pistol, 2 rifle and 2 shotgun stages.
    • Multi-gun - One to three guns per stage This is the more difficult, but to me, the more fun of the two (and they both rock, btw.) For example, on one stage you start off shooting with your pistol at designated targets, then you'll abandon or reholster that gun and pick your shotgun, engage a few more, then maybe you'll switch to your rifle and finish out. Any combination goes (the match director designates stages as pistol/shotgun, rifle/shotgun, etc. - don't think you get to pick the gun to solve the problem. This is multi-gun, not bowling - there are rules.) It can be one, any of the two or all three.
    Does this sound like fun to anyone?
     
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    Does a bear **** in the woods?



    Is 3 gun subject to the same Production/Limited/Open distinctions? Being cheap , I like the idea of a production pistol, 870, and cheap magazine fed rifle. Further, is a magazine fed rifle necessary? Can it be done with, say, a bolt or lever? This sort of asks the same question, but can the COF require mandatory reloads?
     

    slow1911s

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    Unless the COF is a standard or a classifier (which only applies to Pistols), the stages are shot freestyle. Now, I have designed some stages we've used at ACC where we started with an empty gun and had to load on the clock, so there.

    As long as you meet the power factor requirements I think you can run whatever you want. As long as you can safely operate all three guns I don't see a problem, but then again, I'm not running the matches. We see this same thing in Action Pistol. I'm all for people just getting out, shooting and having some fun.

    I know that under 3-gun rules they recognize Production, L-10 and Single Stack pistol divisions (think of 3-gun as three separate matches - one rifle, one pistol and one shotgun). Shotgun would be Open, Tactical or Limited. Rifle would be the same.

    ***disclaimer - I'm remembering this from the last match I shot under these rules. I could look them up, but it is late and I'm not doing it now. I reserve the right to correct myself in the future.
     

    obijohn

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    i've imbedded my response.


    quote=Soundslikejosh;140495]Does a bear **** in the woods?



    Is 3 gun subject to the same Production/Limited/Open distinctions?Yes, plus tactical, which refers to the rifle. the other 2 guns need to be "limited". production is a handgun only division

    Being cheap , I like the idea of a production pistol, 870, and cheap magazine fed rifle. run what you brung is a great way to start. you'll have just as much fun as the shooter with all the high dollar race gear and see if you want to upgrade your guns/gear or continue with what you have now.

    Further, is a magazine fed rifle necessary? no, but reloads are a drag with all but a box magazine rifle. even then reloads can be ... entertaining.

    Can it be done with, say, a bolt or lever? yes, but the reloading issue as above.

    This sort of asks the same question, but can the COF require mandatory reloads? yes, under certain conditions. proper stage design will either force a reload or include movement that let's you make "no lost time" reloads.[/quote]

    the bottom line is, as dave says, that 3gun/multigun is incredible fun. i recommend a few pistol only matches to learn how the game is played, but jumping right into 3gun would be fine as most of the shooters will be glad to help. just beware of which shooter helps you.:):
     

    Chefcook

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    I have been wanting to get into 3gun for a few years now. I used to shoot IPSC in Tn years ago and have always wanted to get into this. I get my new AR-15 On the 4th of November, and I have my trusty Combat Commander. However I still lack the shotgun.. I'm not a very tall guy so I'm looking for an 11/87 or a 870 youth model. So hopefully soon Ill have all the hardware to get started....JC:ar15:
     

    slow1911s

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    Borrowing one of the long guns at a match generally isn't an issue. It does help to email the match director that you'll need to borrow a gun. Just be sure to bring your own ammo, or if you get to talk with the person who owns the gun you'll borrow, ask what they run and bring that.

    I borrowed an AR at the first 2-gun match (run under IDPA rules) I ever shot.
     

    slow1911s

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    Just for reference, here's a Youtube video of the Army Marksmanship Unit team (Dan Horner and Robby Johnson) at the 2007 USPSA Nationals. These guys are two of the best there is playing the game today (and training our men and women fighting the GWOT). Remember, this is multi-gun.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLPHDStB6k4]YouTube - 2007 Multi-Gun Nationals[/ame]
     

    Chefcook

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    I guess Ill have to look for someone going after I get my rifle all set up. I still need sights, extra mags, a sling and a method of attaching a sling. Not to mention getting sighted in. Still allot to do lol. Hopefully ill meet some guys on here as I'm relatively new to the area. Ive found doin all this stuff is allot more fun if ya got a few guys to share it with...JC
     

    rhino

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    Chefcook ... my Rem 1100 has the shortest stock you can put on an 1100 or 11-87 without grinding down that metal thing that protrudes through the stock. You're welcome to try it some time if our paths cross at a match. I hope to get the stock shortened on a Winchester SX2 practical ASAP.

    As far as magazine loaded rifles go ... I've seen several people do really well with an SKS and stripper clips. They may not be as fast a gun with a detachable box magazine, but they're practicing with what they have and they have a lot of fun doing it. I've seen M1 Garands, which are suitable for manly men! I've even seen one woman shoot a Schmidt-Rubin straight pull bolt action. She wasn't very fast, but when she shot a target, it stayed SHOT!

    If you aren't sure if you'll like 3-gun or multi-gun, you should give it a try before you dismiss. It took a few years (literally) for me to convince slow1911s to give it a try and now . . . now he not only likes it, but he's really good at it. He kicked my a** in his very first match and has continues to do so each and every time since then.
     

    Chefcook

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    I have little doubt as to rather or not I'll like 3-gun. I used to shoot IPSC and really enjoyed that. In my mind how could adding more guns do anything but add more fun. I appreciate your offer on the use of your 1100, and would love to take you up on it. That is the shotgun I used as a teenager. I was not too far off the mark to shoot on the 1984 Olympic team. I just need to get my rifle set and sighted, then ill start hangin around. I'll be lookin to get that done between the 5th and 11th of Nov.(i.e. in case anyone that might read this is going to a range.) I have some family with property down south where I can go plinking from time to time, but I need to find a real range with benches and sandbags etc. The only place I know of is Atterberry and I hear 2 hours on the range is 15 bucks. Seems salty to me but I hear its a really nice facility...JC:ar15:
     

    indyjoe

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    How many rounds per stage do you typically have for rifle? I am trying to figure out how bad a 1894 Marlin would be to reload. It is slower for me to put in shells than my Mossberg 500.
     

    slow1911s

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    8-40 rounds/stage for rifle at local matches.

    Most matches around here will require 50 rds pistol, 75 rounds rifle, 25 rounds birdshot and 10-12 slugs.
     

    rhino

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    You only need 50 yards to zero your AR. Zero of point of aim/point of impact at 50 yards. If you have 25 available, zero for 1-1/8 in. LOW point of impact at 25 yards, then confirm at 50 when available.


    I have little doubt as to rather or not I'll like 3-gun. I used to shoot IPSC and really enjoyed that. In my mind how could adding more guns do anything but add more fun. I appreciate your offer on the use of your 1100, and would love to take you up on it. That is the shotgun I used as a teenager. I was not too far off the mark to shoot on the 1984 Olympic team. I just need to get my rifle set and sighted, then ill start hangin around. I'll be lookin to get that done between the 5th and 11th of Nov.(i.e. in case anyone that might read this is going to a range.) I have some family with property down south where I can go plinking from time to time, but I need to find a real range with benches and sandbags etc. The only place I know of is Atterberry and I hear 2 hours on the range is 15 bucks. Seems salty to me but I hear its a really nice facility...JC:ar15:
     
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    Will the friendly pachyderm be at Atlanta this sunday? There may be some of us from Bloomington coming up.

    Also, ACC lists it as "3 gun" not "multi gun". Is this accurate in the sense that each stage will only involve 1 gun?

    It sounds exciting to me.
     

    rhino

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    Will the friendly pachyderm be at Atlanta this sunday? There may be some of us from Bloomington coming up.

    No, sir. I will in fact be at the USPSA pistol match at South Central (close to Bloomington).



    Also, ACC lists it as "3 gun" not "multi gun". Is this accurate in the sense that each stage will only involve 1 gun?

    That is correct. The logistics and scoring of a 3-gun tournament are simple compared to what is involved in multi-gun. The latter takes more time and effort in planning, preparation, and during the match itself. Scoring is more complicated as well. When ACC lost their scoring guru (quite a while ago), they switched back to 3-gun tournament as their standard format.
     

    slow1911s

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    I just tried getting my left arm up on the rifle and...not happening. I'm on a no-lift order from the doctor anyway. I'd LOVE to get out there and play.
     

    rhino

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    This is me straining to not post a snarky remark involving Vagisil.

    Whew! The temptation has curiously passed. :D
     
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