Redbrush IDPA - limiting our shooting area

[SMHurt]

I talked with the President of Redbrush last night on the phone and was told there was a special meeting with the BOD this week who decided to change our IDPA format for us. They want us to leave bay 1 and 2 open which are the two largest bays closest to the cage/barn. We can use the smaller bay 3, 4, and house along with the area next to the lake. This cuts our shooting area down a lot. We always leave at least one bay open for Redbrush members along with the rifle range which is something the BOD was not aware of. We are considerate of members who come to shoot on a Saturday and find out we are holding a match. We leave them a bay to shoot in.

We normally have seven stages of fire and this might change the number of stages or length of stages we have to offer.

My concerns are they took the two largest bays for stages away from us where we normally hold two stages of fire on one bay. We will also need to haul everything further from the cage instead of just walking our toys to the bays across from the barn.

I think the new rules were put in place not knowing we already leave one bay open along with the rifle range and have been doing this since 2001. If Redbrush members come to the range and do not want to shoot competitively with us on our match day they can still go to the open bay or rifle range and shoot.

Thoughts?

 

[Twentyfootdaredevil]

I was there shooting the morning of the last shoot and heard a guy was pretty upset about being ran out of the bay he wanted to shoot in.

Matt walked over before me and my family started shooting so it really was no inconvieniance to us. I haven't seen much of the IDPA setups but I can imagine loosing bay 1 would not be ideal.

 

[sbcman]

I've only been shooting IDPA at Redbrush since August, but the only time I've witnessed it being a problem was when that group of kids filled one bay up with pumpkins. I noticed one pumpkin had "IDPA" written on it I don't think they were happy with IDPA that day.

Here's a thought and it would be hard to work at Redbrush because of the HUGE IDPA turn out, but I shoot a little USPSA style match at Jasper and it's all on one bay. There's usually 15-20 of us altogether and we all shoot through one cof, then set up another one, and do this for 4 courses of fire. It actually goes pretty fast setting it up because all of us are helping. It might be possible for all the squads to go through 4 cofs then everyone tear down a course or two and set a new one up and run it- if 6 or 7 cofs are desired

 

[sbcman]

Posted by Scowens on the other IDPA thread:

Hey guys. Got some disappointing news last night. From this point forward, Red Brush Rifle Range I.D.P.A. may only have bays 3 – 6. Bays 1 and 2, the first two bays you see when you come into the range will be left open. This means that we will use the two skinny, but longer, ranges, the fun house, and the sidematch bay for our courses of fire for the IDPA match. Therefore, with this I cannot commit to putting on a side match for the time being. To put on a side match, we would have to tear down the IDPA COF and then re-construct the COF for what ever firearm would have been used. This would make for a very long day and put us shooting into the night – even in the summer. I just can’t commit to this amount of time and effort. I am sorry.

Also, I do support Red Brush I.D.P.A. using the available bays to the fullest. This is what I got into this sport for, and enjoy, as do many of you also. There is no animosity between me and the men that put on the I.D.P.A. matches and I am proud to be associated with them. I will continue to support them and the purpose of this sport.

From what I have been told, the board of directors at Red Brush Rifle Range has elected to do this during a special meeting this week. All three pistol shooting sports have been affected: Cowboys, Steel Challenge, and IDPA. In addition to this, IDPA has been asked to charge more for non Red Brush Rifle Range members. In the past we have charged the same for both. The I.D.P.A. committee will look into this and determine the new match fees.

We will modify our COF’s accordingly to the bays that can use. Hey, this is what we are about anyways. There is no planned way to engage a threat; the shooter must adapt and develop a plan of action using the available cover and strategy. We can and will do the same with our COF’s. We will continue to have the fun, and challenging COF’s that we all enjoy. Thanks for your past and continued participation on our matches.

Maybe more information will come out during the next meeting on January 5th. If you would like to contact a board member, they may be reached using Red Brush Rifle Range’s web page here.

Thanks.

 

[sbcman]

Posted by Scowens on the other IDPA thread:

Hey guys. Got some disappointing news last night. From this point forward, Red Brush Rifle Range I.D.P.A. may only have bays 3 – 6. Bays 1 and 2, the first two bays you see when you come into the range will be left open. This means that we will use the two skinny, but longer, ranges, the fun house, and the sidematch bay for our courses of fire for the IDPA match. Therefore, with this I cannot commit to putting on a side match for the time being. To put on a side match, we would have to tear down the IDPA COF and then re-construct the COF for what ever firearm would have been used. This would make for a very long day and put us shooting into the night – even in the summer. I just can’t commit to this amount of time and effort. I am sorry.

Also, I do support Red Brush I.D.P.A. using the available bays to the fullest. This is what I got into this sport for, and enjoy, as do many of you also. There is no animosity between me and the men that put on the I.D.P.A. matches and I am proud to be associated with them. I will continue to support them and the purpose of this sport.

From what I have been told, the board of directors at Red Brush Rifle Range has elected to do this during a special meeting this week. All three pistol shooting sports have been affected: Cowboys, Steel Challenge, and IDPA. In addition to this, IDPA has been asked to charge more for non Red Brush Rifle Range members. In the past we have charged the same for both. The I.D.P.A. committee will look into this and determine the new match fees.

We will modify our COF’s accordingly to the bays that can use. Hey, this is what we are about anyways. There is no planned way to engage a threat; the shooter must adapt and develop a plan of action using the available cover and strategy. We can and will do the same with our COF’s. We will continue to have the fun, and challenging COF’s that we all enjoy. Thanks for your past and continued participation on our matches.

Maybe more information will come out during the next meeting on January 5th. If you would like to contact a board member, they may be reached using Red Brush Rifle Range’s web page here.

Thanks.

Really sorry to hear about the sidematches going, man- those were great!

Also sorry to hear about the fee increases and so on. Owensboro does this as well, but the fee for non-members shooting matches is only $15. Personally, if any changes to fees are made I think it would be best to lower the $15 charge to a less amount for members and keep it $15 for non-members. Why would we pay more to shoot matches with less COFs and no sidematches?

There is a solution to all of this- get Scott, yourself, Mudcat, Dustydawg and TF on the board

 

[scowens]

Just found this thread. It's a bummer putting in the time to develop something like the side matches and taking part in the IDPA matches, and then without warning the balloon pops. I know we will still have the matches, and we'll have fun. It's just a change.

 

[scowens]

There is a solution to all of this- get Scott, yourself, Mudcat, Dustydawg and TF on the board

Just stepped down from being a president from another club. I get all I can stand from committees at work. I'll just continue to be a worker bee. and tell Scott the same thing I tell my wife: "yes dear"

 

[SMHurt]

Yes ... we will adapt and overcome. Our matches might take longer which means we will be taking up more range time. We will figure it out because there is no other place to take our matches. No other ranges in Evansville where we can shoot or hold a monthly match.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Man this is a real blow for me. I just let my Redbrush membership expire since I don't get out there much besides the matches.

This is my thought, anyone shooting on Sat SHOULD be a member of Redbrush so they also get a newsletter which tells them when the matches are and whether or not the rifle range is open. I think much of the problem is non members coming out when they know the range will be open. I have noticed the last couple months that we have had to run a few people off from our bays close to the end of our matches.

That is one reason why I let my membership expire: many of the newer people at the range are very rude and don't handle their weapons properly and do not abide by range rules.

I don't know how the relationship works between IDPA and Redbrush but I think we should have a little more say in how our matches are ran if we pay to rent the range out. If we do not then we are at the mercy of their kindness and should be thankful for what we get.

In all honesty I feel like this could be a good turning point for us. We could have less courses of fire and higher round counts. Let the revolver guys have more rounds and up the round counts. Have 4 stages of fire with 25 rounds. Fewer stages of fire and we could get done earlier and still be able to do a sidematch.

 

[parkerj112]

Ideas

here, I think that we as people whom partisipate at the IDPA events need to go to the meetings and express our displeasure in a respectful way. If that goes no where then we adapt and overcome. I have been looking forward to this upcoming match and side match quite a bit. If we did some creative COF construction could we not set up the side match in the same bay. For instance we engage the targets in the nearer part of the COF then in the side match have to engage all the targets near and far?? I for one always think man I wish that IDPA would leave this stage open for a extra run thru with my shotgun/carbine as it would be a lot fun, I mean good practice. Plus for realism I would fight my way to my shotgun/carbine and take the fight from there. I think that a COF could easily be set up to mimic this.

Thanks,
Parker

 

[scowens]

Yea, I think it could! It will be a change (for me), but let me ponder it.

FWIW: I've had the same thought before. Especially on some of the paper I've didn't do so good on...."wished I had my damn shotgun for that target!!!!"

 

[DustyDawg48]

I'm going to keep my opinions of the vote to myself but I do think that we still need to incorporate shotgun and carbines into our monthly match rotations. Maybe not every month and certainly it shouldn't always fall to Steve to be the one to create these, but we do need to keep these going. Whether it is 4 courses and a shotgun or carbine course or 5 without them, I hope we can find a way to keep mixing it up.

 

[sbcman]

In all honesty I feel like this could be a good turning point for us. We could have less courses of fire and higher round counts. Let the revolver guys have more rounds and up the round counts. Have 4 stages of fire with 25 rounds. Fewer stages of fire and we could get done earlier and still be able to do a sidematch.

As the resident "revolver guy" you know I'm down with this! But to stay true to IDPA rules, round counts can only go to 18, I believe.

Remember what I was telling you about what those USPSA guys were telling me? Looks like this is it. I think Redbrush use to have USPSA matches- I really hope IDPA doesn't go that way there as well.

here, I think that we as people whom partisipate at the IDPA events need to go to the meetings and express our displeasure in a respectful way. If that goes no where then we adapt and overcome. I have been looking forward to this upcoming match and side match quite a bit. If we did some creative COF construction could we not set up the side match in the same bay. For instance we engage the targets in the nearer part of the COF then in the side match have to engage all the targets near and far?? I for one always think man I wish that IDPA would leave this stage open for a extra run thru with my shotgun/carbine as it would be a lot fun, I mean good practice. Plus for realism I would fight my way to my shotgun/carbine and take the fight from there. I think that a COF could easily be set up to mimic this.

Thanks,
Parker

You know, I hadn't thought of the guys that shoot IDPA that are Redbrush members- I would venture to say there are probably more of them than the very few who have complained about shooting bays. I'm not a Redbrush member (and this has pretty well insured I won't become one) but if I was I'd be letting my thoughts known to the board.

The board should also know that the finest and most advancing ranges seem to be those that are embracing the shooting sports whole hog. Those that aren't dwindle into obscurity. For example, there's actually two ranges in Owensboro, but few have ever heard about the second one because no shooting sports groups do anything there. Just sayin.

Yea, I think it could! It will be a change (for me), but let me ponder it.

FWIW: I've had the same thought before. Especially on some of the paper I've didn't do so good on...."wished I had my damn shotgun for that target!!!!"

Steve, I agree with Parker, and as I've mentioned elsewhere I believe it can be done like the matches at Jasper where we shoot on only 1 bay and tear every course down and build a new one and it goes quick because several hands are helping. (how's THAT for a run-on sentence)

We can doooo it! Plus, I DO NOT want to make my Saigas unhappy- especially the S12, I've already got her hopes up for January.

I'm going to keep my opinions of the vote to myself but I do think that we still need to incorporate shotgun and carbines into our monthly match rotations. Maybe not every month and certainly it shouldn't always fall to Steve to be the one to create these, but we do need to keep these going. Whether it is 4 courses and a shotgun or carbine course or 5 without them, I hope we can find a way to keep mixing it up.

 

[DustyDawg48]

So what is the official status of the next IDPA side-match in Jan? Is it a complete no go or are we going to do what we can?

 

[snorko]

...I think the new rules were put in place not knowing we already leave one bay open along with the rifle range and have been doing this since 2001. If Redbrush members come to the range and do not want to shoot competitively with us on our match day they can still go to the open bay or rifle range and shoot.

I can assure you the Board was aware of this. This is in fact a rule for all competition groups mandated by the board. I was on the board when we passed that rule. It had become a problem because, way back, a large shooting match org was taking up all the bays and were rather arrogant about it.

here, I think that we as people whom partisipate at the IDPA events need to go to the meetings and express our displeasure in a respectful way.

That is a good, constructive idea. How many of the regular IDPA shooters are members? I remember at one time for the Cowboy shooters there were something like 50-75 regular participants but only 4-5 were members.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Snorko, I didn't realize you were on the board at Redbrush. I would have said hi sometime.

As a current member at Redbrush (this is my last year) I will be sure to express my dissatisfaction with this come monday.

 

[snorko]

Snorko, I didn't realize you were on the board at Redbrush. I would have said hi sometime.

I was on the board many years ago. Mid 1990's through the early 2000's I think. My membership fee is now like my deer tag purchase, more of a donation than a fee for use.

I am going to have to make an effort to make the next meeting to hear the details on this.

 

[chizzle]

I can assure you the Board was aware of this. This is in fact a rule for all competition groups mandated by the board. I was on the board when we passed that rule. It had become a problem because, way back, a large shooting match org was taking up all the bays and were rather arrogant about it.



That is a good, constructive idea. How many of the regular IDPA shooters are members? I remember at one time for the Cowboy shooters there were something like 50-75 regular participants but only 4-5 were members.

One way we've dealt with this issue at Marion County Fish and Game (IndyRange.com) is to make sure we offer a $5 discount for club members on normal match fees. What we've seen is that initially many of our regulars weren't members (which ticks off members that visitors are using the range they help pay for), but as time went on most regulars joined the club. Now we've got about 75% of our regulars as members, and our club membership has increased dramatically.

We also split revenue from our matches (half goes towards the club, half towards the program) so that nobody can complain that a program doesn't "pull it's weight". These simple changes have boosted membership and kept everybody friendly because we're all working for the improvement of the club. Now different disciplines want to see others do well, because we all benefit if a match is successful. While these types of issues are bound to come up, the only way that groups are going to get a voice at our local clubs is to get involved.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I was on the board many years ago. Mid 1990's through the early 2000's I think. My membership fee is now like my deer tag purchase, more of a donation than a fee for use.

I am going to have to make an effort to make the next meeting to hear the details on this.

You confused me there, is this an old rule that no one enforced on IDPA until now or is this a recent ruling?

 

[snorko]

You confused me there, is this an old rule that no one enforced on IDPA until now or is this a recent ruling?

As best I can recall, it has long been a rule that at least one pistol bay must remain open during all competitions for general member use. I believe it may have been specified as bay 1 or 2 in the beginning as the other bays were not as improved as they are today. As bays 3 & 4 were roofed and improved, it may have become more relaxed and optional between 1-4.