USPSA rules "You make the call"

[Coach]

The range officer orders the shooter to make ready. The shoot draws his pistol and racks the slide and an empty piece of brass is ejected. What is the proper call and the proper rule to cite to support your call?

 

[rhino]

Are you taking your recertification exam?

 

[Whitey1]

DQ- all guns must be unloaded with hammer down in holster

 

[Coach]

DQ- all guns must be unloaded with hammer down in holster

Rule?

Does brass count as loaded? Did the RO allow this to happen on the previous stage?

 

[Coach]

DQ- all guns must be unloaded with hammer down in holster

Are you going to make a return to shooting USPSA?

 

[sbcman]

What is the proper call?

Tell him to look into an APEX ejector

Sorry, let the serious discussion continue now.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

That is an odd series of events to have an empty piece of brass eject... Obviously the RO/SO did not do a visual inspection of the chamber prior to calling a safe range.

I would vote DQ for not following proper procedure but since you specified USPSA I don't have their rule book handy.

 

[JJJ]

I'm going with DQ 10.5.13

 

[sbcman]

That is an odd series of events to have an empty piece of brass eject... Obviously the RO/SO did not do a visual inspection of the chamber prior to calling a safe range.

I would vote DQ for not following proper procedure but since you specified USPSA I don't have their rule book handy.

Not as odd as one might think, my friend. Last year at the Summer Sizzler (IDPA) I started on a stage that had you pick you gun up and load. I did just that and a full moonclip of snap caps comes tumbling out. I had tightened my ejector rod up in the safe area, which requires something be in the cylinder to do. After the stage was ran the SO said "be thankful this wasn't ammunition."

Indeed, I was

 

[JJJ]

It should have been cleared on the previous stage, but it is the competitors responsibility.

 

[Westside]

I'm going with DQ 10.5.13

to many thing left out of the scenario. with only the presented info, he is BYE BYE.

 

[Rob377]

DQ.

10.5.13 Having a loaded firearm other than when specifically ordered to by the
Range Officer.

Loaded is defined as -

Loaded Firearm . . . . . . . .A firearm having a live or dummy round in the chamber or cylinder, or having a live or dummy round in a magazine inserted in the firearm

Dummy round is defined in 2.4.2 to include empty cases.

Dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap caps and empty cases), loaded magazines, loaded speed loading devices andlive rounds must not be handled in a Safety Area under any circumstances

(see Rule 10.5.12).


The counterargument is that if the RO on the previous stage didn't follow the ULSC command procedure and verify empty chamber, then technically the shooter shouldn't be in violation of 10.5.13. However, that would be incorrect. Once given unload show clear per 8.3.6 et seq., the order to have a loaded firearm referenced in 10.5.13 is no longer valid. Shooter has been given the range command requiring

If the competitor has finished shooting, he must lower his handgun and present it for inspection by the Range Officer with the muzzle pointed down range, magazine removed, slide locked or held open, and chamber empty. Revolvers must be presented with the cylinder swung out and empty.

The onus to empty is on the shooter, no longer under specific order of RO, he should go get a Dilly Bar.

There's probably some room to tighten the rulebook on this to eliminate the tiny tiny bit of ambiguity, but the right call is DQ.

 

[Coach]

JJJ had it right with the right rule.

FYI Handling empty cases in the safe area would be a DQ as well.

 

[downrange72]

Appendix A3
Definition of Loaded Firearm

A firearm having a live or dummy round in the cham-ber or cylinder, or having a live or dummy round in a
magazine inserted in the firearm.

A piece of brass could be interpreted as a "dummy" round. 10.5.13 would be applicable. If a dummy round is a DQ, I would have to say that a piece of brass is as well.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Not as odd as one might think, my friend. Last year at the Summer Sizzler (IDPA) I started on a stage that had you pick you gun up and load. I did just that and a full moonclip of snap caps comes tumbling out. I had tightened my ejector rod up in the safe area, which requires something be in the cylinder to do. After the stage was ran the SO said "be thankful this wasn't ammunition."

Indeed, I was

Ok... But that is a REVOLVER and we alreasy know they are abomonations on the competition field

For a PROPER handgun to do that it would have to fail to eject not once when the last shot was fired, which also had to be the last shot of the stage, but also when the chambered was cleared after the mag was dropped (assuming this was done albeit improperly-not enough to actually cycle the slide and eject the spent case).

When (if) the hammer was dropped it was an empty shell so no bang and all seemed well.

This is just one example I can think of why I INSISTED people actually pull the trigger and dry fire the gun rather than use their decocker to drop the hammer when I was SOing for IDPA.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

FYI Handling empty cases in the safe area would be a DQ as well.

I wish we could apply this to the damned brass pickers that plagued my IDPA shoots. They really sucked the fun out of it when I had to run over their asses to help paste and reset targets.

 

[mongo404]

Heres another one for you. At the end of the stage If you are finished unload and show clear is given. Shooter drops mag (so you think) racks slide points at a target... Bang..????? Course of fire is not done until the range clear is given Right?

 

[cschwanz]

I've taken a few shots before after the "If finished show clear" command. I wasnt finished

 

[BillD]

Me too Corey, scared the hell out of the RO....

 

[midget]

I've taken a few shots before after the "If finished show clear" command. I wasnt finished

lol...I think I've done that to you a few times