I CAN'T GET A STRAIGHT YES OR NO...

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  • kimbercollector

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    Kimber Custom TLE II 9mm TFS FREE SHIP W/BIN : Semi Auto Pistols at GunBroker.com

    Id like to shoot this gun in the 1911 single stack division...it has a threaded barrel, but I would not be installing a compensator. However, in the future, after much practice, it gives me the chance to add one, plus an optic and get into the open division.

    Anyhow, does the threaded barrel make it illegal? Id be shooting out at Atlanta CC.

    Also, in regards to shooting steel, does ACC have a 22lr division thats regularly shot?

    Thank you, Dave
     

    rvb

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    For uspsa? No, not SS legal. Would also make a VERY uncompetitive open gun. Not a bad Limited-10 gun. Do you have uspsa experience? If you are a kimber collector, just bring a basic 1911 out and get started. Don't go buying game gear until you know the game.

    -rvb
     
    Last edited:

    Coach

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    For uspsa? No, not SS legal. Would also make a VERY uncompetitive open gun. Not a bad Limited-10 gun. Do you have uspsa experience? If you are a kimber collector, just bring a basic 1911 out and get started. Don't go buying game gear until you know the game.

    -rvb

    There you go. A semi-straight answer.
     

    G7.

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    WYOMING; SOMEDAY...
    For SCSA matches, I have 7 different .22LR divisions ::
    22RO & 22RI = Rifle, Optic sighted and Iron sighted
    22PO & 22PI = Pistol, Optic and Iron
    22VO & 22VI = Revolver, Optic and Iron (I should have called them 22WO and 22WI for Wheelgun, oh well)
    22CK = Conversion Kit (if you want the recognition for it) most just shoot in 22PI
    MMM = Micro Mini Mousegun; is an 8th division that doesn't get used much. (5-shot NAA and Freedom Arms mini revolvers)

    Rimfire divisions currently comprise about half of my entries. It was getting close to 2/3 before 22 ammo went insane.
     

    jakemartens

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    I sent this to John Amidon to get an answer
    my first thoughts would be no it is not legal, however it the gun made weight and fit the box there is nothing in the rules that I can see that says a threaded barrel is illegal.
    So let's see what Amidon says
     

    rvb

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    I sent this to John Amidon to get an answer
    my first thoughts would be no it is not legal, however it the gun made weight and fit the box there is nothing in the rules that I can see that says a threaded barrel is illegal.
    So let's see what Amidon says

    i didn't figure it would fit in the box?
    also, D5.22 says must be "factory profile" bbl.... So I take that to mean "as JMB intended" (the "special condition") and not extending past normal bbl length.

    SS rules are more screwed up and convoluted than production even....

    Production won't allow a 9mm bbl in a .40 gun because of the advantage the extra weight gives :rolleyes:, so I'll be shocked if this is legal...

    :dunno:

    -rvb
     
    Last edited:

    jakemartens

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    i didn't figure it would fit in the box?
    also, D5.22 says must be "factory profile" bbl.... So I take that to mean "as JMB intended" (the "special condition") and not extending past normal bbl length. (Since they don't really mean "factory" if a bull bbl isn't legal even if it comes from the factory that way)

    SS rules are more screwed up and convoluted than production even....

    Production won't allow a 9mm bbl in a .40 gun because of the advantage the extra weight gives:rolleyes: , so I'll be shocked if this is legal...

    :dunno:

    -rvb
    me too, but there was a recent thread on enos with regards to a 5 1/4 single stack and whether it would be legal, Amidon's response was if it made weight and fit the box, and the special condition was explained as having it basis from the original design, but the box demensions and wieght allows for modern updates.
    Since production 1911's with a threaded barrel are readily avaible and if it made fit the box and made weight it could be good to go.
    I can't see it making weight with a 9mm barrel, with the added weight of the barrel and additional length, but it can be filed on here and there to fix that.
    Let's see what he says
     

    cschwanz

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    With the extra legth of the threaded barrel with thread protector cap, i can't see how it'd fit the box.

    As RVB said, if you want to buy to have it bc its a nice gun and you like it go for it. IF it fits the USPSA box and is SS legal, it would work there. Would be a great gun for steel challenge as well if thats your thing. Would be terrible for USPSA Open if you wanted to be competitive at all. If you just want to have fun and shoot a comp'd 1911 with a red dot bc it sounds fun and you like it, then more power to you, but I can almost guarantee you'll finish last in Open division at a match with it.
     

    jakemartens

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    Jake,

    The box and the maximum weight pretty much controls the division, as it is listed at 39 ounces with an empty magazine inserter and overall length of 5 inches, it would appear that as long as it has barrel bushing, it is good to go.

    John


    So based on his response (which is the response he gave on a "longslide" 1911) the box is what determines what is legal size wise, and then factor the weight in as long as it's basis is on a 1911 with a steel frame (excluding other factors that are not permitted)
    The extended barrel as long as it fits and is a bushing barrel is legal (as long as you are not screwing on a weight or comp)
     

    Coach

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    Jake,

    The box and the maximum weight pretty much controls the division, as it is listed at 39 ounces with an empty magazine inserter and overall length of 5 inches, it would appear that as long as it has barrel bushing, it is good to go.

    John


    So based on his response (which is the response he gave on a "longslide" 1911) the box is what determines what is legal size wise, and then factor the weight in as long as it's basis is on a 1911 with a steel frame (excluding other factors that are not permitted)
    The extended barrel as long as it fits and is a bushing barrel is legal (as long as you are not screwing on a weight or comp)

    Not sure that is a straight answer
     

    Cameramonkey

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    i didn't figure it would fit in the box?
    also, D5.22 says must be "factory profile" bbl.... So I take that to mean "as JMB intended" (the "special condition") and not extending past normal bbl length.

    SS rules are more screwed up and convoluted than production even....

    Production won't allow a 9mm bbl in a .40 gun because of the advantage the extra weight gives :rolleyes:, so I'll be shocked if this is legal...

    :dunno:

    -rvb

    Not to derail the thread (even though its apparently made it into the station and the question answered) but even if its a Glock 23 with a 9mm barrel? The Glock website shows that a 19 and a 23 weigh the same. I cant see how swapping barrels on that particular weapon would cause an issue based on the weight factor.

    Its an honest question because I am considering shooting competition with my G23/9mm barrel to save $$ and cant justify a G19 JUST to compete. Based on the box/weight I cant see why I couldnt shoot my G23/9mm without being at any advantage to a Stock G19 competitor.
     

    rvb

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    Not to derail the thread (even though its apparently made it into the station and the question answered) but even if its a Glock 23 with a 9mm barrel? The Glock website shows that a 19 and a 23 weigh the same. I cant see how swapping barrels on that particular weapon would cause an issue based on the weight factor.

    Its an honest question because I am considering shooting competition with my G23/9mm barrel to save $$ and cant justify a G19 JUST to compete. Based on the box/weight I cant see why I couldnt shoot my G23/9mm without being at any advantage to a Stock G19 competitor.

    That one is actually cut and dry in the rule book for production.
    apx D4.21.3
    BARRELS: Current rules remain in effect - you may replace the barrel with an OFM or aftermarket barrel which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original barrel for that model of gun.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    That one is actually cut and dry in the rule book for production.
    apx D4.21.3
    BARRELS: Current rules remain in effect - you may replace the barrel with an OFM or aftermarket barrel which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original barrel for that model of gun.


    Well that sucks.. Guess I wont be shooting USPSA... While I can appreciate the intent, in my case I am screwed even though by the weights and measures (even by the USPSA production rules) I am at no advantage.

    Maybe I can draw "G19" In crayon on my slide and nobody will notice? :):
     

    rvb

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    Why can't you shoot the G23? Sounds like excuses.
    Register for limited division, fill those mags full (use G22 mags, even), and shoot. You can even use your 9mm barrel in Limited. That rule just applies to production division.

    -rvb
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Why can't you shoot the G23? Sounds like excuses.
    Register for limited division, fill those mags full (use G22 mags, even), and shoot. You can even use your 9mm barrel in Limited. That rule just applies to production division.

    -rvb

    Meh. Just trying to run my G23 at $13.99 a box instead of $19.99 a box. I just want to shoot cheaper 9mm without buying a new gun even though all things being equal, a G23+9mm barrel= G19 by every measurable metric.

    I understand the intent of the rules; they want to make sure somebody doesnt take some monster (heavy) gun, drop in a smaller barrel and mop the floor with competitors due to an advantage. In this case not so much as in this specific configuration there is no advantage. (if you can point one out, I'd love to hear it)

    I also dont want to screw myself dropping into limited and get my clock cleaned by the guys running custom high dollar guns. :dunno:

    So yeah... I have excuses... my excuse is I have a limited budget due to family commitments.
     

    rvb

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    I also dont want to screw myself dropping into limited and get my clock cleaned by the guys running custom high dollar guns. :dunno:

    Thats the common perception / misconception about the sport. What are you giving up shooting a G23 against a custom 2011? A couple rounds in the mag? A mag well? An inch of sight radius? A little better trigger? None of that matters as much as you might think it does. You give up a little if you go 9mm, but even that's not that big of a deal. Truth of the matter is if you get your clock cleaned the gear will be another convenient excuse ;) Come shoot, have a LOT of fun, worry about division/gear details later. Or... Stay home and miss out because of a nit rule in the apx of the rulebook.

    hell, sell the 23 and buy a 19.

    -rvb
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Thats the common perception / misconception about the sport. What are you giving up shooting a G23 against a custom 2011? A couple rounds in the mag? A mag well? An inch of sight radius? A little better trigger? None of that matters as much as you might think it does. You give up a little if you go 9mm, but even that's not that big of a deal. Truth of the matter is if you get your clock cleaned the gear will be another convenient excuse ;) Come shoot, have a LOT of fun, worry about division/gear details later. Or... Stay home and miss out because of a nit rule in the apx of the rulebook.

    hell, sell the 23 and buy a 19.

    -rvb

    I actually MAY sell my 23. I'm getting ready to swap out my 27 for a 42, so the 23 will be my last 40 gun. I already have another 9mm that I inherited from my dad, so it might make sense, all things considered.

    I went 40 back in the day because it performed better ballistally than a 9 or a 45. In the last 20 years 9mm defensive loads have come a long way so my original concerns with going 9 are gone.
     
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