Carry Optics

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    If you are someone looking at the new Carry Optics Division but are just not sure about plopping that kind of money down on an experiment. I have a solution for you. I know a place that hosts indoor USPSA matches and rents guns that has a Smith and Wesson CORE in 9mm on the rental wall. Sitting on top of that gun is a Trijicon RMR optic. It is available for rent.
     

    cedartop

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 25, 2010
    6,687
    113
    North of Notre Dame.
    OK, I really wish you guys would put in a Parabellum North. You have all kinds of cool stuff going on there that I would love to take part in if it wasn't a 3 hour drive.

    As to the "Carry Optics" Division. I have been wondering something, how many people who compete in that division actually carry a gun with an optic on it? It seems like that was the point of the division. I love that they started it as I do carry a RMR Glock everyday and was happy to be able to start competing using it without having to go into Open. Now if only they would open it up to Appendix carry.:)
     

    obijohn

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Mar 24, 2008
    3,504
    63
    Terre Haute
    I appreciate the fact the USPSA is recognizing the carry optics division. However, like in any sport, there will be those that shoot the division just to have another game to play. Same in most shooting sports. Doesn't change anything. You want to go play the game with your carry pistol? Do so, please. That is how the game has been played since the beginning. If you should come to Terre Haute, or close, to shoot a match with CO, let me know, I'll try it with you.

    OK, I really wish you guys would put in a Parabellum North. You have all kinds of cool stuff going on there that I would love to take part in if it wasn't a 3 hour drive.

    As to the "Carry Optics" Division. I have been wondering something, how many people who compete in that division actually carry a gun with an optic on it? It seems like that was the point of the division. I love that they started it as I do carry a RMR Glock everyday and was happy to be able to start competing using it without having to go into Open. Now if only they would open it up to Appendix carry.:)
     

    AllenM

    Diamond Collision Inc. Avon.
    Industry Partner
    Rating - 100%
    132   0   0
    Apr 20, 2008
    10,387
    113
    Avon
    I carry a gun with an optic, before CO division it would have put me in open class. I have not shot it in a match yet but I am less reluctant since it would be a more even feild
     

    JollyMon

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Sep 27, 2012
    3,547
    63
    Westfield, IN
    I have an RMR on my carry gun. I decided to use it in the last USPSA match I attended. I did both open and CO just because that was all I brought. I think I will only be competing in CO now and bringing something completely different for a different division, such as pcc
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    OK, I really wish you guys would put in a Parabellum North. You have all kinds of cool stuff going on there that I would love to take part in if it wasn't a 3 hour drive.

    As to the "Carry Optics" Division. I have been wondering something, how many people who compete in that division actually carry a gun with an optic on it? It seems like that was the point of the division. I love that they started it as I do carry a RMR Glock everyday and was happy to be able to start competing using it without having to go into Open. Now if only they would open it up to Appendix carry.:)

    Many who play this game do not carry. Few in the division so the answer is few right now. Load the mags up and allow holster anywhere on the belt would be a good thing. So don't hold your breath.
     

    jakemartens

    Master
    Rating - 96.1%
    99   4   0
    Aug 30, 2008
    4,006
    83
    Indianapolis, IN
    Carry Optics will be reviewed by the Board in January... if you want to get the board to hear your thoughts about and observations on carry optics email the area directors and president
    onky they can vote to make changes.
    there are 8 area directors emails are
    area#@uspsa.org # = 1-8
    president@uspsa.org
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    Carry Optics will be reviewed by the Board in January... if you want to get the board to hear your thoughts about and observations on carry optics email the area directors and president
    onky they can vote to make changes.
    there are 8 area directors emails are
    area#@uspsa.org # = 1-8
    president@uspsa.org

    I
    emailed the Area 5 director last evening and received a response. I encourage everyone else to do it as well. If enough people do it there is a chance common sense might prevail.
     

    jakemartens

    Master
    Rating - 96.1%
    99   4   0
    Aug 30, 2008
    4,006
    83
    Indianapolis, IN
    Area5@uspsa.org
    president@uspsa.org

    review the rule set for carry ops now, if you are concerned about the ten round capacity there magazine length restriction is in place of the 141.25, but ten round capacity, if you believe that removing the ten round capacity and following the mag length restriction is a good idea then you should be emailing that.
    I can tell you that 15 rounds or oem capacity argument will probably be a lost cause because there are way too many variables and additional burdens on RO's. The 141.25 is already an established rule and we already have a gauge for it. There would be no additional factors to take into account. Oem mags for example currently have different capacities, and we already allow base pads that change that, asking RO's to know count rounds in production (10), single stack (8 or 10), Limited 10 and then 15 will create an additional burden.
     

    Dog1

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    Feb 15, 2010
    2,658
    113
    Clark County, Indiana
    Area5@uspsa.org
    president@uspsa.org

    review the rule set for carry ops now, if you are concerned about the ten round capacity there magazine length restriction is in place of the 141.25, but ten round capacity, if you believe that removing the ten round capacity and following the mag length restriction is a good idea then you should be emailing that.
    I can tell you that 15 rounds or oem capacity argument will probably be a lost cause because there are way too many variables and additional burdens on RO's. The 141.25 is already an established rule and we already have a gauge for it. There would be no additional factors to take into account. Oem mags for example currently have different capacities, and we already allow base pads that change that, asking RO's to know count rounds in production (10), single stack (8 or 10), Limited 10 and then 15 will create an additional burden.

    I don't understand how this can even be a burden. If it's a standard capacity mag, then let them load it to that capacity. Rule out any extended base pads.

    If it can be loaded to OEM specs and fit in the box, then there should be no burden.
     

    jakemartens

    Master
    Rating - 96.1%
    99   4   0
    Aug 30, 2008
    4,006
    83
    Indianapolis, IN
    I don't understand how this can even be a burden. If it's a standard capacity mag, then let them load it to that capacity. Rule out any extended base pads.

    If it can be loaded to OEM specs and fit in the box, then there should be no burden.
    You would have to start using a box

    Glock 19 with slide ride optic can use a Glock 17 mag...which is legal?
    CZ 75 can use a CZ 16 round oem mag or their 17 round mag or the mecgar 18 round mag is oem for the custom shop guns.which one is oem...
    You are now asking an RO to figure out if the mag in just those two examples are legal to the gun or is legal to the manufacturer...and now checking to see if it is a manufacturer mag or an aftermarket mag..and is that legal a mag? I cannot use my Magpul Glock mags now?

    What is the oem capacity on a Walther, Tanfoglio, Sig, etc etc...
    What is the oem capacity on an Springfield xd, XDm? It is different...
    Beretta has 15 and 16 round mags factory mag

    What size is the box, now you have two boxes because the single stack, production box will not work on a gun with an optic

    The burden is that we would now be asking RO'S to police 100x more things.
    It either is 10 or something that is measurable, and since we already have a mag gauge you are not adding any additional expense to clubs or matches, requiring any additional rules or any additional counting then what we have now, or adding a separate box.

    Oem mag with a taran tactical base pad is legal in production, but if you went to just oem in carry ops now I have to remove my base pads since the production box will not work with my co gun.

    Any additional restrictions on things does not grow a division, think opposite...what restrictions can be removed but keep from becoming cost prohibited to someone and keep the playing field somewhat equal.

    By allowing certain modifications and a certain length mag it is now up to the competitor to find the what is most cost effective for them to be as competitive as they can be and still have a fairly equal field with regards to gear.
     

    Dog1

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    Feb 15, 2010
    2,658
    113
    Clark County, Indiana
    You would have to start using a box

    Glock 19 with slide ride optic can use a Glock 17 mag...which is legal?
    CZ 75 can use a CZ 16 round oem mag or their 17 round mag or the mecgar 18 round mag is oem for the custom shop guns.which one is oem...
    You are now asking an RO to figure out if the mag in just those two examples are legal to the gun or is legal to the manufacturer...and now checking to see if it is a manufacturer mag or an aftermarket mag..and is that legal a mag? I cannot use my Magpul Glock mags now?

    What is the oem capacity on a Walther, Tanfoglio, Sig, etc etc...
    What is the oem capacity on an Springfield xd, XDm? It is different...
    Beretta has 15 and 16 round mags factory mag

    What size is the box, now you have two boxes because the single stack, production box will not work on a gun with an optic

    The burden is that we would now be asking RO'S to police 100x more things.
    It either is 10 or something that is measurable, and since we already have a mag gauge you are not adding any additional expense to clubs or matches, requiring any additional rules or any additional counting then what we have now, or adding a separate box.

    Oem mag with a taran tactical base pad is legal in production, but if you went to just oem in carry ops now I have to remove my base pads since the production box will not work with my co gun.

    Any additional restrictions on things does not grow a division, think opposite...what restrictions can be removed but keep from becoming cost prohibited to someone and keep the playing field somewhat equal.

    By allowing certain modifications and a certain length mag it is now up to the competitor to find the what is most cost effective for them to be as competitive as they can be and still have a fairly equal field with regards to gear.

    Too much thought. With that BS, you should write IRS code.

    If it comes with the gun from the factory, then let it run.

    Glock-uses the size mags that it comes with from the factory 19 uses 19, 17 or 34 uses 17 or 34-They are the same 17 round mags. Magpul mags are same as OEM, so are ETS mags. Stipulate that it has to use the same size mag that it comes with from the factory.

    Same for the rest. Christ, it ain't that hard.

    **** like this sucks the fun out of it. Freaking bureaucrats.

    You start mucking around with rules like you posted, you might as well pull the plug on Carry Optics.
     

    jakemartens

    Master
    Rating - 96.1%
    99   4   0
    Aug 30, 2008
    4,006
    83
    Indianapolis, IN
    Too much thought. With that BS, you should write IRS code.

    If it comes with the gun from the factory, then let it run.

    Glock-uses the size mags that it comes with from the factory 19 uses 19, 17 or 34 uses 17 or 34-They are the same 17 round mags. Magpul mags are same as OEM, so are ETS mags. Stipulate that it has to use the same size mag that it comes with from the factory.

    Same for the rest. Christ, it ain't that hard.

    **** like this sucks the fun out of it. Freaking bureaucrats.

    You start mucking around with rules like you posted, you might as well pull the plug on Carry Optics.

    So the ro has to know what mag comes with what gun and if that mag is the factory mag and how many rounds it holds and then count during the stage to make sure that it is loaded to just that capacity...that doesn't sound hard at all

    I would like to shoot my Glock 34 MOS with Taran Base Pads that fit the Production Box, but my mags are no longer oem so I have to either have a separate set of mags or take the taran base pads off and put the oem base pads back on...that doesn't so hard to explain

    BoD wants to keep it simple that is why you have 10 rounds and not 15, 16 or OEM capacity, but there is the length restriction in there as well.
    Eliminate the capacity, use the 141.25 length and let people load up.
    There is no figuring anything out, use what ever magazine/basepad you want, as long as it is 141.25, a measurement we already use in Limited and that is already in the rulebook.

    You add nothing else for anyone to try to figure out (by that I mean "is this legal?" or "can I get away with this", "was that 15 rounds or 17??")
    you add nothing else that has to be enforced, like a new box, new list of oem factory capacity listings with every approved handgun every made to use as reference guide
    or create any of the "this is the gun everyone has to get to be competitive" (CZ P09 holds 19 plus 1...compared to a 17 round or 16 round mag in other popular guns)
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    How about make it a length of mag and be done with it? Most people are going to shoot factory mags but not everyone. 140mm and be done.
     

    jakemartens

    Master
    Rating - 96.1%
    99   4   0
    Aug 30, 2008
    4,006
    83
    Indianapolis, IN
    production will probably surpass Limited in popularity this year based on activity (31% vs 29% right now)
    Pretty sure that the BoD will not consider any divisional changes with Production anytime soon.
     
    Top Bottom