IDPA Match Saturday

[jwo483]

There was a scoring glitch at the match which caused some shooters to get flagrant procedural errors (since this was added to the rulebook exactly none have been handed out) and finger procedural errors that they did not deserve. Several had two or more finger procedurals when two is an automatic DQ (interestingly enough there were no finger DQ's). A good friend of mine had three flagrant procedurals adding 30 seconds to his time and ruining his best IDPA match yet. The match directors sent out an email admitting they knew about this but were not going to fix it.

There were only 12 shooters affected and it is just plain laziness on the part of the match directors not to correct this. Scores are important to most people and taking people's money to shoot a match and then not having them right is unexcusable. If they didn't post scores at all most shooters (at least the real ones) wouldn't show up. Scores have been screwed up 2 months in a row now.

Kind of sad with the crew they get to help them that they won't spend 15 minutes to correct the scores . From now on guys refuse to pay until you see your scores.



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[rhino]

Which club was it and why won't they correct the scores?

 

[jwo483]

Which club was it and why won't they correct the scores?

See sentence one paragraph two.

 

[jwo483]

Those who shot know.

 

[BJones]

Which club was it and why won't they correct the scores?

The club is ACC , who knows why it cant be corrected, Maybe an April Fools Joke

 

[cedartop]

IDPA is defensive training, scores don't matter.

 

[BJones]

IDPA is defensive training, scores don't matter.

Uhh Ohh

 

[jwo483]

IDPA is defensive training, scores don't matter.

You know what they say Bruce about "suffering fools gladly". Or to put a finer point on it - life is too short to argue with small-minded people.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Email from the match director: (my emphasis added)

Shooters:

Thank you all for being part of a record breaking IDPA turnout at ACC. It has been brought to my attention that there were some scoring issues with several shooters receiving incorrect penalties. After a discussion with _______, we have decided it is impossible to make corrections since we do not know if the penalties that were scored were supposed to be different penalties, or points down, etc. It would also require an audit of all 82 shooters' scores and we would only be guessing as to whether we were removing the correct penalties for the above mentioned reasons.


Our policy since the inception of Practiscore and the Kindle scoring is that the shooter is responsible for confirming the accuracy of their own scores by confirming their score with the scorekeeper and clicking "accept". Every shooter should have an opportunity to review their score and accept it personally after it is digitally entered into the tablet. I will educate my staff about being more consistent, but the shooter must keep us honest by verifying their own score. Thanks for understanding.

I support the directors. Its our responsibility to confirm our scores. (this club's policy is for the kindle wrangler to show the screen to the shooter and the shooter pushes the accept button themselves. Its no secret what your score was.)

 

[jwo483]

Email from the match director: (my emphasis added)
As I said - if you would have read it - it was a glitch in the scoring system, the same thing can't happen to 12 shooters. 7 shooters should have been DQ'd for finger PE's according to the scoring. Even one of the MD's got one - WTF ???? I was an SO and I didn't hand out any flagrants or fingers, but yet they showed up.

 

[jwo483]

Email from the match director: (my emphasis added)
As I said - if you would have read it - it was a glitch in the scoring system, the same thing can't happen to 12 shooters. 7 shooters should have been DQ'd for finger PE's according to the scoring. Even one of the MD's got one - WTF ???? I was an SO and I didn't hand out any flagrants or fingers, but yet they showed up.[/QUOTE

You might have noticed I said they screwed up the scoring last month too. Could care who you support.

 

[rvb]

As I said - if you would have read it - it was a glitch in the scoring system,

If it is an actual glitch, I suggest working with the MD to report it to Practiscore. The Practiscore folks have been VERY responsive the couple times I've pointed out issues to them. They'll need to know versions of the SW used on all devices, a link to the scores on line, and they'll probably ask for the match to be sent to them from your master. A good description of the problem and how to repeat it will help.

Hard for a scorekeeper/MD to just go changing scores w/o evidence (eg paper backup), or there goes the match integrity.

-rvb

 

[Cameramonkey]

Email from the match director: (my emphasis added)
As I said - if you would have read it - it was a glitch in the scoring system, the same thing can't happen to 12 shooters. 7 shooters should have been DQ'd for finger PE's according to the scoring. Even one of the MD's got one - WTF ???? I was an SO and I didn't hand out any flagrants or fingers, but yet they showed up.

And I did read it.

My contribution to the thread was to address your comment that they didnt bother to take a few minutes to fix it as if its a simple task. Per the MD fixing is not practical because its not a quick fix. Unless your idea of a fix is to just erase everyone's penalties (legit or not) and call it a day. Thats the only fast way to do it that I can see. In that case my deserved finger penalty going away is better than your bogus cover call going away? Either way the scores wouldnt be accurate as now we have some with legit penalties getting higher scores than they should. (I missed this match btw)

Now if this were a higher level match with monies and prizes on the line, then I could see it being worth wading through the quagmire and trying to fix it. But its not. And if this weekend's match suffers the same faults, this buttercup will suck it up and move on.

 

[peterock]

I don't believe this was a Practiscore glitch this was a Kindle input issue by scorekeepers. I ran a kindle for maybe 40% of the day in my squad and noticed on two Courses of Fire the scoreable target section only displayed two targets out of maybe 8-9(estimated)before you had to scroll down otherwise you would start counting in the penalty section inadvertently. Those who have run a kindle for IDPA should understand what I mean. I actually noticed it happen while scoring to me and had to correct before finalizing for review. With the new -1 = a full sec rule change many scores were MUCH higher than they would have been in 2016 making it somewhat conceivable that participants may have believed they just did very poorly before hitting "Accept". I don't believe that there were any unsavory or unfair practices in place, just inexperienced scorekeepers that should have been pasting instead of keeping score.

One solution would be to bring back the $5 discount for Approved Kindle Wranglers, but I'm selfish and have no access to the ACC treasury so take that for what it's worth. Either way the people running this sport (it is a game, with rules) are volunteers and I do appreciate them giving up their time to ensure I can continue to participate in something I enjoy. **** happens and there is always next month plus everyone knows what they say about opinions......

 

[rvb]

I don't believe this was a Practiscore glitch this was a Kindle input issue by scorekeepers. ..... you would start counting in the penalty section inadvertently.

You might still consider recommending a GUI change to the PS folks to help prevent the issue ...
-rvb

 

[Twangbanger]

I don't believe this was a Practiscore glitch this was a Kindle input issue by scorekeepers. I ran a kindle for maybe 40% of the day in my squad and noticed on two Courses of Fire the scoreable target section only displayed two targets out of maybe 8-9(estimated)before you had to scroll down otherwise you would start counting in the penalty section inadvertently. Those who have run a kindle for IDPA should understand what I mean. I actually noticed it happen while scoring to me and had to correct before finalizing for review. With the new -1 = a full sec rule change many scores were MUCH higher than they would have been in 2016 making it somewhat conceivable that participants may have believed they just did very poorly before hitting "Accept". I don't believe that there were any unsavory or unfair practices in place, just inexperienced scorekeepers that should have been pasting instead of keeping score.

One solution would be to bring back the $5 discount for Approved Kindle Wranglers, but I'm selfish and have no access to the ACC treasury so take that for what it's worth. Either way the people running this sport (it is a game, with rules) are volunteers and I do appreciate them giving up their time to ensure I can continue to participate in something I enjoy. **** happens and there is always next month plus everyone knows what they say about opinions......

What does your Kindle screen look like, as far as the entry of penalties is concerned? (I've never done an IDPA match, so I'm not familiar with the electronic formatting). What you describe sounds like a very plausible situation (and possibly preventable, with training and/or format modification as Ryan suggests).

 

[amboy49]

I didn't shoot at ACC last week but asked a friend who shot that day what his take on the scoring was. He said, as always, the kindle screens were hard to read in the sunlight making it tough to confirm the score (and any penalties) that you just shot.

In a separate but related concern, for the sake of expediency the scoring is always rushed. This includes pasting targets. I realize no one wants to slow the squad down as the shooting day lasts a long time as it is. However, more often than not the SO's run thru the course calling out down points with the pasters covering the target(s) asap. If nothing else, it prevents shooters from getting a clear read on where shots are hitting.

Regardless, as has been said local matches are run with all volunteer help who are doing the best job they can with no intended malice at heart. I would suggest this be considered a learning experience with corrections made so as to prevent a reoccurrence - especially at a higher level tournament.

 

[BJones]

Regardless, as has been said local matches are run with all volunteer help who are doing the best job they can with no intended malice at heart. I would suggest this be considered a learning experience with corrections made so as to prevent a reoccurrence - especially at a higher level tournament.

For sure, most folks don't realize how hard these volunteers work to make these matches happen. Kudos for all of those match volunteers

 

[jwo483]

Perhaps all of the responders to this thread missed the important point that no one got more than one finger call - they would have been DQ'd. Also there were NO flagrant procedurals handed out, hasn't been one since they were added to the rule book. Those were the only penalties in question.
EASY FIX !

 

[Grelber]

This was probably another case of Russian hacking.

Weaken our defenses by messing with the self defense games.

If the md likes vodka that would pretty much tie the bow on it.