Keeping the gun indexed on transitions

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  • Grelber

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    Noticed lately that some, maybe most, of the C/D/M shots on transitions seem to be about losing correct sight alignment.

    Always assumed that the errors were about not having the front sight where it needs to be or shooting before the gun has stopped the swing.

    Make sense?

    Any particular drills that help with maintaining correct index?
     

    rvb

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    Having the patience to get the sight to the A zone is often a big reason we don't hit the A. However, if the sights aren't aligned as you're experiencing, then your index isn't that solid.

    Often that's a symptom of trying to make the transition with your arms, instead of your torso. I always like the tank turret analogy.... a tank doesn't move it's barrel to find a target, the whole top end rotates.... that's how you maintain your index as you transition.

    Also, on wide transitions, it may be faster to not "swing" from target to target but to pull the gun in and press back out.... fastest distance being a straight line and all, plus your gun's momentum is then taking the gun to the target instead of past it.

    Do you keep the gun up as you transition, or allow it to drop? Keeping it up keeps it in your vision, and seeing it helps keeps keep it aligned.

    w/o seeing you shoot, hard to offer much more...

    -rvb
     

    Grelber

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    Having the patience to get the sight to the A zone is often a big reason we don't hit the A. However, if the sights aren't aligned as you're experiencing, then your index isn't that solid.

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    that's a symptom of trying to make the transition with your arms, instead of your torso. I always like the tank turret analogy.... a tank doesn't move it's barrel to find a target, the whole top end rotates.... that's how you maintain your index as you transition.

    First thought was yea I do that, but second thought was that maybe I just think that I do that. Need to focus on it during a couple practice sessions & see if I can get a bit of video of what I am actually doing.

    Hadn't thought about bringing the gun in a bit, feels a bit awkward at first, do keep the gun up (I think).

    Side note, HappyGunner wussed out but at Silver Creek he said he was going to start transitions with squeals like an 'A' list female tennis player making hard serves. Might be something that could catch on.
     

    sv40sw45

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    Seems to me we covered all this a" FEW TIMES" like maybe a hundred!!!! When you where with me at 2 different Training sessions. Do you remember???? Call you shot, upper torso movement not the arms. Call your Shot. Move the eyes first. Call your shots. Keep the Pistol at eye level when moving and transition. Call YOUR SHOTS !!!
     

    Grelber

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    Seems to me we covered all this a" FEW TIMES" like maybe a hundred!!!! When you where with me at 2 different Training sessions. Do you remember???? Call you shot, upper torso movement not the arms. Call your Shot. Move the eyes first. Call your shots. Keep the Pistol at eye level when moving and transition. Call YOUR SHOTS !!!

    Working on it :) .
     

    Grelber

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    If so obvious, then why aren't you doing it? ;)

    Appreciated your feedback by the way, smart aleck cartoon aside.
    Thought I was (the tank turret thing particularly), but now I think maybe it is one of those things that you need to work at, verify, lather-rinse-repeat,verify, until it is really hardwired in permanently and under all situations, then verify.
     

    rvb

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    Any particular drills that help with maintaining correct index?

    Forgot to address thispart ...

    One transition drill I used to do was to set two targets about 5 yards apart (put them at a 45* angle facing inward). Start 15-20 yards back, and the transition is pretty small. Shoot 2 each, move a step closer, shoot two each, another step, 2 each, another step, etc... eventually you end up in the middle of the targets w/ a big 180 transition... you can try to keep the transition splits the same as the distance/angle balance out.

    -rvb
     

    rvb

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    Appreciated your feedback by the way, smart aleck cartoon aside.
    Thought I was (the tank turret thing particularly), but now I think maybe it is one of those things that you need to work at, verify, lather-rinse-repeat,verify, until it is really hardwired in permanently and under all situations, then verify.

    Don't just focus on the technique part. Max said it about 5 times in his post..... call the shot!
    So you're now noticing the sights aren't aligned... if that's new for you to SEE they aren't aligned when you miss, horray, you're on the right path!

    are they aligned enough to call the shot, or just totally not there? If you are now seeing they aren't aligned, why are you breaking the shot (the captain obvious part!)? You're going through motions (whether "turret-ing" or not) but not seeing the sights on target correctly (not calling them). OR.... you're now calling the shot, but as I said, not having the patience to align the gun.

    Make sure your eyes are snapping to the SPOT on the new target you want to hit. Get your eyes to that SPOT, not just somewhere on cardboard...

    -rvb
     

    Grelber

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    Seems to me we covered all this a" FEW TIMES" like maybe a hundred!!!!

    Did remember some things, now, every time I get in a slump, or have a better than average performance, or just seem to be coasting along at the same pace, I trade guns.


    Forgot to address thispart ...

    One transition drill I used to do was to set two targets about 5 yards apart (put them at a 45* angle facing inward). Start 15-20 yards back, and the transition is pretty small. Shoot 2 each, move a step closer, shoot two each, another step, 2 each, another step, etc... eventually you end up in the middle of the targets w/ a big 180 transition... you can try to keep the transition splits the same as the distance/angle balance out.

    -rvb

    Thanks! Will do.
     

    mongo404

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    Did remember some things, now, every time I get in a slump, or have a better than average performance, or just seem to be coasting along at the same pace, I trade guns. HMMMMM
    This should not have anything to do with seeing what you need to see and calling the shot. If you have the correct sight picture every time. Correct trigger control also so you don't move the sight picture. TGO covered this in a video. If your mashing the trigger and moving the front sight when the shot goes off it doesn't really matter where the sight was now does it?
     

    rhino

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    This should not have anything to do with seeing what you need to see and calling the shot. If you have the correct sight picture every time. Correct trigger control also so you don't move the sight picture. TGO covered this in a video. If your mashing the trigger and moving the front sight when the shot goes off it doesn't really matter where the sight was now does it?

    Simple, but not always easy!
     

    Twangbanger

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    The past few months, I've noticed when I shoot a classifier with a tuxedo in the center that covers up everything but the A-zone (eg. 99-48 Tight Squeeze), there is a tendency to throw a shot or two well right (never left)...as I'm transitioning from left to right. I think I'm probably reinforcing this during dryfire, going fast and not being super-critical on sight alignment. Now the question becomes...am I doing it on the first shot as I'm coming in...the second shot as I'm going out...or sometimes both? :scratch:

    What's the phone number of this shot place I'm supposed to call?

    I do think there's real benefit in the comment about training your eyes to go to a spot. I've found that cleans me up quite a bit on steel targets. And/or, making sure to add some obstructed targets to your dryfire (so you don't do like me and dryfire train to an unobstructed target level of precision...then carry it over to tuxedos in live fire).
     

    Coach

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    Call the shots and don't move the gun until the sight has lifted on the last shot on that target. When the shot lifts on the last shot snap the eyes right where you want the bullet to go on the next target and bring the gun to the eye. As you bring it try and keep the gun up and level and moving in a straight line to that place on the next target where you are looking, but mostly get it over there. When it arrives pull focus from the target to the front sight if it is iron sights, and break the shot.
     
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