Sight picture plan on stage walk through?

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  • Grelber

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    When you are coming up with a stage plan, does it include a plan for what an acceptable sight picture is on each target, or is figuring out what you need to see something that just happens as you are shooting the stage?
     

    Doublehelix

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    I am not sure if I have an exact sight picture in mind, but I certainly note the close "blast 'em" targets and the further away "take my time" targets. The blast 'em targets don't really even get a sight picture other than is the barrel pointed in the right direction, whereas the further away targets are fully-focused sight pictures. Everything else gets determined as I go.

    Might be a good thing to add to my stage plans though, thanks for giving a new idea to think about.
     

    longbeard

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    When you are coming up with a stage plan, does it include a plan for what an acceptable sight picture is on each target, or is figuring out what you need to see something that just happens as you are shooting the stage?

    Stability correlates to sight picture for me. Does the target require me to be stable so I can shoot a well placed shot or can I throw some rounds at it as I am moving, entering or leaving...
     

    Coach

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    I shot a pretty good match at the SNS 400. I had very good sight pictures most of time. I credit having a good match and shooting well to this fact. I shot pretty well at the Battle for the North Coast. I pulled off of seven targets. There was considerable less shooting to be done there. I obviously did not have an acceptable sight picture seven times in 262 rounds.

    This past week in practice I spent the majority of my time trying to see what I need to see to hit the target. I try to have a sight picture on everything but the down and dirty close stuff it is not as detailed of a sight picture as the longer shots or the hard cover/ no shoot protected targets. I spent time working on skunk targets this past week and I am going to do it again this week. Last week's practice session re-taught me that a front sight focus and calling shots is all I can do and all I need to do for the best results I am capable of doing.
     

    rvb

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    When you are coming up with a stage plan, does it include a plan for what an acceptable sight picture is on each target, or is figuring out what you need to see something that just happens as you are shooting the stage?

    acceptable sight picture for each target? no... I mean that comes down to pausing to break a shot if it looks wrong and breaking the shot when it looks right, then trusting your shot call. The most important thing is PLAN TO HAVE A SIGHT PICTURE. call your shots. "too close to aim" or "double taps" are just asking for bad hits or no hits...

    I might decide ahead of time I'd rather take a head shot vs go for the lower A, or maybe I can save a position if all I can see of a target is the C/D zone from somewhere, if that's what you mean... depending on how targets are arranged I might decide ahead of time to accept a less than ideal alignment depending on arrangement of other props/ports, etc (eg when standing back from a port you can't always see the whole target like you would if you are right at the port, so I might plan to accept aiming at whatever part of the target is available)

    Now I also consider OTHER things I want to be sure to actually see... like I might want to know that I'm putting my foot on the right spot for a tight position, or I might remind myself to look at the gun for a table start so I don't miss the grab. Some things you want to visualize and actually see during the course so you don't make a mistake... don't be the guy who adds 2-3 seconds to your stage fumbling to grab a door knob, for instance...

    -rvb
     

    Bosshoss

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    My thoughts even though I shoot a division that stresses different points(pun intended) than some of the other divisions.
    Shooting revolver means that I rarely or never have any make up shots available(unless I do a standing reload)during a stage and with minor scoring it changes everything.
    Depending on the stage I have a plan on how to run that stage and a back up plan and sometimes a third plan if things go wrong. I don't need to worry about planning sight pictures.
    I ALWAYS try to have a good sight picture no matter the target difficulty or distance. OK I have done a few hip shots on a target that is less than 10 feet and it is the first target I draw on. I will break the first shot while bringing the gun up into my sight alignment but the second shot is sighted.
    I ran drills where I point shot close targets and then ran them with sight pictures. I would guess that 5% of the point shoot drills were better hit factor than sighted drills. The juice isn't worth the squeeze for me shooting revolver and minor scoring.

    Once you learn to see the front sight come back down from recoil and your grip and shooting platform is solid it isn't that much slower to actually see what is happening. Yes they are times when you see shooter run by a close target and throw a couple of unaimed shots at it and never even pause, and you can get away with that if you know your abilities.

    At my age and size I'm not going to be moving fast thru a course of fire but I try to be efficient and not make any mistakes. The thing I stress is accuracy.

    Jeff look at the results from South Central Sunday match. Even though the overall results don't really matter I beat you:rockwoot:(barely but with a revolver I take what I can get:): )
    You were 22 seconds faster than me in the overall match time. I beat you by being more accurate than you. See how that sight picture thing comes into focus(again pun intended).
    Different stage plans depending on the division you shoot make the comparisons difficult but it can be a eye opener.
     

    Good on paper

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    One thing I picked up from a podcast recently and is so obvious that I never thought about it is to pick a specific aiming point on each target. Instead of blasting away at the A zone on an open target, shoot at the perforated A in the center. If there’s a no shoot angled to your left of a target don’t just shoot in the general vicinity of the brown on the right side aim for the B/C perf or whatever you feel confident about shooting.
    Obvious yeah, but sometimes that escapes me
     

    Fuzz

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    This is some great conversation. I would like to see a lot more of this.

    And to put my efforts in this. I shoot center mass or spray and pray. Seems to be all I got. :rockwoot:
     

    Good on paper

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    I’ve tried to visualize the sight picture during walk thrus but it seems to get lost once the beep goes.
    I figure that trying to train myself to zero in on a specific aim point might be a more far reaching strategy.
     

    Grelber

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    This past week in practice I spent the majority of my time trying to see what I need to see to hit the target.

    Preplanning 'what you need to see' is what I was thinking about when I started this thread.
    Seems like if I sort of just shoot I can: Miss steel because I am aiming at the white thing instead of the center of the white thing, do the same with paper, go into bullseye mode on the whole stage and waste a whole lot of time on close and easy targets.

    Apreciate all responses. Need to think more about stability. Am going to play with trying to add a sight picture plan and see what happens.
     

    Good on paper

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    Preplanning 'what you need to see' is what I was thinking about when I started this thread.
    Seems like if I sort of just shoot I can: Miss steel because I am aiming at the white thing instead of the center of the white thing, do the same with paper, go into bullseye mode on the whole stage and waste a whole lot of time on close and easy targets.

    I don’t think it can hurt at all to visualize that kind of detail during your walk through. I just seem to lose it once I’m on the run.
    One of Ben Stogers drills that I like a lot is accelerator. A paper target at close (4-7yrd) medium (10–13yrd) and far (25~yrd). Two shots on each and change up the order in which they are engaged some. This has helped me see what an acceptable sight picture is at match distances and speed looks and feels like. It’s helped with my shot calling as well.
     
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    rvb

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    Preplanning 'what you need to see' is what I was thinking about when I started this thread.
    Seems like if I sort of just shoot I can: Miss steel because I am aiming at the white thing instead of the center of the white thing, do the same with paper, go into bullseye mode on the whole stage and waste a whole lot of time on close and easy targets.

    Apreciate all responses. Need to think more about stability. Am going to play with trying to add a sight picture plan and see what happens.

    Learning to aim at the center of the target isn't a walk-through thing, it's a dryfire and practice thing.

    Put a 4" diameter target in the upper portion of the lower A zone and do your dryfire and livefire drills with THAT as your target. You will be training your eye to find that spot on the target relative to big brown area's dimensions (head, shoulders, etc). Do the same w/ your poppers, put a smaller target in the center and THAT is what you aim for. The rest of the target, the C and D zones are just "safety netting" in case you miss your actual target, the top part of the A zone. But you cannot learn what that sight picture looks like during the walk through. It's too late at that point.


    Some tricks to learn what a good sight picture looks like...... take a fat sharpie and outline the A-zone for dryfire and live fire. Don't break any shots outside of that area. Learn what "sloppy" sight pictures you can get away with (this is part of the shot calling process). Then go smaller and put a ~4" target at the top of the A zone and don't accept any shots outside of that. Then go to a 2" square of duct tape. Get fast on those smaller targets, you're points will increase as you will start to only accept sight pictures aimed at the proper spot in the sea of brown.

    Then start adding no shoots. Don't change your aim point unless you actually cover it (eg a NS covering 1/2 of the A vertically, then start splitting the difference between the NS and the A/C line). Then start angling the targets and turning them upside down, etc so you get comfortable finding that spot in any situation.

    don't forget the turtle targets. Many folks have NO idea where to aim on those.

    again, a training thing, not a walk-through thing.

    -rvb
     

    JCSR

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    Good info here for sure. Anyone who has had the pleasure of seeing me shoot knows I disregard sight picture and stage plan as soon as the timer starts!
     

    jakemartens

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    I think your question is more along the lines of do you pre-plan or want to program in targets that are going to require a different sight picture
    i.e. A close open target that you are going to get a “flash sight” picture and transition into a longer shot that you need to “pre-plan” or remember to “aim” a little harder on.

    It could be going from a close open target into a hard cover or no shoot target, or a wide transition into an open target that is going from 3yards to 30 yards.

    Yes, I do, same as I try to plan targets that I will take on the move or coming into or out of a position.
     

    rvb

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    I think your question is more along the lines of do you pre-plan or want to program in targets that are going to require a different sight picture
    i.e. A close open target that you are going to get a “flash sight” picture and transition into a longer shot that you need to “pre-plan” or remember to “aim” a little harder on.

    It could be going from a close open target into a hard cover or no shoot target, or a wide transition into an open target that is going from 3yards to 30 yards.

    Yes, I do, same as I try to plan targets that I will take on the move or coming into or out of a position.

    If that's what we are talking about, then no, I don't preplan that. I still subscribe to the "see what you need to see" school of thought. If it's a far/tight target and my sights aren't where they need to be, I get them right. If it's a close target and I'm "on" quickly, I can break the shot quickly. I'm not planning a certain sight picture, rather simply trying for a good sight picture!

    K.I.S.S theory.... I have enough to [try to] remember once the little box beeps.

    If anything I get myself in trouble on the close arrays not aiming enough and end up giving up a bunch of points as I machinegun across... I find myself calling the bad hits and then my mind starts falling behind thinking about what I just screwed up vs driving the gun to the right spot on the next target. as such If I remind myself of anything during the walk through it's just to only go as fast as my sight pictures say I can, regardless of the target, vs looking for certain sight pictures....

    -rvb
     
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