Some trap shooting advice (bringing my fiancee into the fold)

[larcat]

My partner is historically anti-gun, but has been coming around recently and I've got her excited to try trap/sporting clays. She's never shot in her life before.

I'm a very amateur trap shooter but really enjoy it. For her initial intro though I sorta feel like getting her an introductory lesson with a professional instructor is probably the better way to go. She's also got some health concerns that impact this (pretty substantial surgery on her right shoulder, she's right hand dominant) so other than "heavy semi auto", I'm not really sure what to shop for her for as per a gun for clays. She's a solid 6' and pretty strong, so a little easier than it might be to shop here.

1) Any one know a (maybe hopefully female) instructor in the NWI Indiana area that I could buy a lesson from for my lady for an intro course?
2) Any suggestions on what guns to look at? She likes vintage stuff and wood + steel, so that direction might be best. I personally like shooting Model 12s for trap, but I think they probably have more felt recoil than she will be comfy with.

Thanks for any advice.

-L

 

[gottabeoutdoors]

Not quite NWI, but when my wife wanted to learn Sporting Clays back in 2013, we went down to Indiana Gun Club and she had a number of lessons with the pro there that does instruction. They also helped her find a shotgun that fit her perfectly and worked well for her (ended up being a Beretta A400). She got really decent in a short amount of time as a result of this arrangement and we had a lot of fun shooting various matches around the state.

Hope that helps any.

EDIT: I just saw where the instructor there at IGC, Bob Self, passed away earlier this year. He was a great teacher and seemingly a great person.

 

[gregkl]

I love shooting the clay's sports and I can see why anyone would want to.

I do question: "pretty substantial surgery on her right shoulder"

Is this a recent surgery that hopefully once recovered, she will be good to go?

Or is it a chronic issue? If it's the latter, maybe shotgunning will not be a good idea long term. I hate to see someone not do an activity because of some limitation but I also like to see someone choose an activity that won't exacerbate a physical limitation. My brother had rotator cuff surgery and had to retire from water skiing. But he could still do archery and he can shoot some shotgun but sticks mostly to pistol these days.

No matter what shotgun one shoots, you will deal with recoil. It would be a shame to have her cause more injury only to walk away from any kind of shooting activity.

 

[larcat]

Thanks for the heads up about Indiana Gun Club. Sad that Mr. Self passed away -- A good teacher, especially for something like this, is a gift.

Not quite NWI, but when my wife wanted to learn Sporting Clays back in 2013, we went down to Indiana Gun Club and she had a number of lessons with the pro there that does instruction. They also helped her find a shotgun that fit her perfectly and worked well for her (ended up being a Beretta A400). She got really decent in a short amount of time as a result of this arrangement and we had a lot of fun shooting various matches around the state.

Hope that helps any.

EDIT: I just saw where the instructor there at IGC, Bob Self, passed away earlier this year. He was a great teacher and seemingly a great person.

 

[larcat]

She's cleared for activity, was 3 years ago, and it wasn't the joint it self -- arm pit etc, but there was some associated nerve damage and her pectorals are still tender/sore from where they cut them. Prior to corona, she was back in the gym doing weight training etc so she's got full use.

I love shooting the clay's sports and I can see why anyone would want to.

I do question: "pretty substantial surgery on her right shoulder"

Is this a recent surgery that hopefully once recovered, she will be good to go?

Or is it a chronic issue? If it's the latter, maybe shotgunning will not be a good idea long term. I hate to see someone not do an activity because of some limitation but I also like to see someone choose an activity that won't exacerbate a physical limitation. My brother had rotator cuff surgery and had to retire from water skiing. But he could still do archery and he can shoot some shotgun but sticks mostly to pistol these days.

No matter what shotgun one shoots, you will deal with recoil. It would be a shame to have her cause more injury only to walk away from any kind of shooting activity.

 

[gregkl]

She's cleared for activity, was 3 years ago, and it wasn't the joint it self -- arm pit etc, but there was some associated nerve damage and her pectorals are still tender/sore from where they cut them. Prior to corona, she was back in the gym doing weight training etc so she's got full use.

Okay, good to hear! My recommendation would be for a autoloader like you have already alluded to.

There are two different systems out there that deal with the gas utilization. One has less perceived recoil than the other. Get the one with less.

I'm not too up on which is which since I have been shooting my Beretta AL-2 Magnum since high school.

 

[Limpy88]

When I have done shotgun instruction with a never shot person. Do the eye dominance exercise. I have found decent amount of females were left eye dominant. If she is, just have her shoot left handed. The arm issue wont be there and wont have to tape the glasses up to combat eye dominance.


Learning to Shoot with your Weak Hand - Firearms Training

 

[gregkl]

When I have done shotgun instruction with a never shot person. Do the eye dominance exercise. I have found decent amount of females were left eye dominant. If she is, just have her shoot left handed. The arm issue wont be there and wont have to tape the glasses up to combat eye dominance.


Learning to Shoot with your Weak Hand - Firearms Training

I am amazed at people who can switch like that. I tried it. Being in my 6th decade of life, it wasn't going to happen.

I just tape the left lens. I have a special pair of shooting glasses for shotgun sports.

 

[Limpy88]

I am amazed at people who can switch like that. I tried it. Being in my 6th decade of life, it wasn't going to happen.

I just tape the left lens. I have a special pair of shooting glasses for shotgun sports.

Have a buddy that was a 1000 yard black powder world champion. He had to switch in his 50's when he lost most sight in right eye. I met him after. I shot with every weekend for a year when he told me. I would have never have guessed it.

 

[Twangbanger]

What do you shoot? Just have her shoot that (unless it's a Model 12...ouch). A strong 6-footer should be able to handle an 8-9 pound 12ga auto (20 gauges are good, too), but no sense buying something and setting up lessons until you know there is some basic interest. An hour or two spent on a skeet field should tell you that. Shoot some of the "easier" stations (1,7) with short leads. Surprises generate bad habits in beginners, so don't graduate to an oscillating trap until she's had a decent amount of experience shooting birds with known angles. As mentioned above, do check eye dominance. It could potentially affect whether you're looking for a RH or LH gun.

Paid instructors are hard to find, but you may turn up some names at clubs where you shoot.

 

[thunderchicken]

I'm coming to the party here a little late but here is my advice and opinions...
Let your fiancee decide what kind of gun she likes and let her pick it out. She will have pride in having picked it and will be more likely to want to shoot it.
There are many ways to reduce felt recoil
Proper gun fit makes a huge difference. Also, choose ammo wisely. The shot payload makes big difference in felt recoil and 7/8 oz or 1oz will be fine for trap shooting and will be softer shooting. A good recoil pad such as kickeez or microcell or gooey but I have heard great things about Falcon Strike pads too (they are a hydraulic recoil reducer in a pad). If she chooses a semi auto, get a shell catcher- many trap shooter get honked off when shells are being thrown all over by an autoloader.
As far as any recommendations for guns have her try as many as she can. Handle them and see what fits best but know that likely there will be a need for an adjustable comb or butt plate to achieve proper fit.
Since it sounds like the intent is to shoot BOTH trap and sporting clays, I would suggest looking at something that is marketed as a crossover type gun or that is designed to shoot a 60/40 pattern. Typical field guns shoot flat (50/50) and often requires the target to be covered up when shooting. In trap the target is usually shot while it is rising and the slightly higher pattern will allow seeing the target better. Look at the Indiana Gun Club website and you can look at a variety of guns to see a wide variety of options for whatever price range you have new and used. With the right ammo and fit a 12g will always beat a 20g for shotgun sports and you will find even most women shoot 12g for sporting purposes..especially when shooting targets with more distance.
As others have pointed out check eye dominance. I was told by Phil Kiner (look him up) many women crossfire when they shoot with both eyes open. There is nothing wrong with shooting a shotgun with one eye closed (many great shooters do). Or with a sight blocker from Meadows Industry that prevents crossfiring from eye dominance issues.

 

[larcat]

I like model 12s and have _no_ experience with autos so : /

Deer Creek in SW Michigan does have an instructor they work with so think we're gunna try that. Lady is on board! They also have a variety of rentals so she can try different things

What do you shoot? Just have her shoot that (unless it's a Model 12...ouch). A strong 6-footer should be able to handle an 8-9 pound 12ga auto (20 gauges are good, too), but no sense buying something and setting up lessons until you know there is some basic interest. An hour or two spent on a skeet field should tell you that. Shoot some of the "easier" stations (1,7) with short leads. Surprises generate bad habits in beginners, so don't graduate to an oscillating trap until she's had a decent amount of experience shooting birds with known angles. As mentioned above, do check eye dominance. It could potentially affect whether you're looking for a RH or LH gun.

Paid instructors are hard to find, but you may turn up some names at clubs where you shoot.

 

[larcat]

Thanks for the detailed reply, it's really appreciated!

We found a place with a variety of rentals including a400s and an instructor so we're gunna go that route.

Per eye dominance -- we've tried twice and it seems like she's very slightly right dominant but not much -- like if the object fills the triangle of her hands only a quarter of it gets covered when she closes the right.

She's ambidextrous and had hand/eye issues as a little kid so the doc had her do a bunch of drills with both hands/eyes for a number of years which is maybe why?

Pretty excited about all of this.

Also, very very good call on "get her shooting and then let her shop" -- she's into old watches and antiques generally, so I'm pretty confident shell get into vintage guns once she's shooting

I'm coming to the party here a little late but here is my advice and opinions...
Let your fiancee decide what kind of gun she likes and let her pick it out. She will have pride in having picked it and will be more likely to want to shoot it.
There are many ways to reduce felt recoil
Proper gun fit makes a huge difference. Also, choose ammo wisely. The shot payload makes big difference in felt recoil and 7/8 oz or 1oz will be fine for trap shooting and will be softer shooting. A good recoil pad such as kickeez or microcell or gooey but I have heard great things about Falcon Strike pads too (they are a hydraulic recoil reducer in a pad). If she chooses a semi auto, get a shell catcher- many trap shooter get honked off when shells are being thrown all over by an autoloader.
As far as any recommendations for guns have her try as many as she can. Handle them and see what fits best but know that likely there will be a need for an adjustable comb or butt plate to achieve proper fit.
Since it sounds like the intent is to shoot BOTH trap and sporting clays, I would suggest looking at something that is marketed as a crossover type gun or that is designed to shoot a 60/40 pattern. Typical field guns shoot flat (50/50) and often requires the target to be covered up when shooting. In trap the target is usually shot while it is rising and the slightly higher pattern will allow seeing the target better. Look at the Indiana Gun Club website and you can look at a variety of guns to see a wide variety of options for whatever price range you have new and used. With the right ammo and fit a 12g will always beat a 20g for shotgun sports and you will find even most women shoot 12g for sporting purposes..especially when shooting targets with more distance.
As others have pointed out check eye dominance. I was told by Phil Kiner (look him up) many women crossfire when they shoot with both eyes open. There is nothing wrong with shooting a shotgun with one eye closed (many great shooters do). Or with a sight blocker from Meadows Industry that prevents crossfiring from eye dominance issues.

 

[thunderchicken]

Sounds like you are making the right choice in getting her shooting with an instructor and letting her do the gun shopping to find what she likes.
I understand you like model 12 and some of the classic shotguns. I do too but a couple things to keep in mind about antique guns.. For some models replacement parts are few & far between, likewise some models you maybe hard pressed to find a gunsmith comfortable working on them. Also keep in mind most modern shotguns are designed to be shot with the head more upright so the stock dimensions are different on moat newer guns vs many of the classics. That can make a very big difference in felt recoil

 

[larcat]

Yeah -- I had a 12 that I put probably 2500 target loads through before I moved back to Chicago and sold what I had (learned the lesson of not selling guns I *really* like after that.) I know the 12 isn't optimal but for my very recreational shooting it did ok, and everytime I picked the darn thing up it put a smile on my face. Shopping for a replacement right now.

I had a 1200 with a slightly raised rib. It was almost certainly better for trap and I used it as a loaner when I took people out shooting but it just wasn't as enjoyable for me even though I might have broken more clays with it.

Sounds like you are making the right choice in getting her shooting with an instructor and letting her do the gun shopping to find what she likes.
I understand you like model 12 and some of the classic shotguns. I do too but a couple things to keep in mind about antique guns.. For some models replacement parts are few & far between, likewise some models you maybe hard pressed to find a gunsmith comfortable working on them. Also keep in mind most modern shotguns are designed to be shot with the head more upright so the stock dimensions are different on moat newer guns vs many of the classics. That can make a very big difference in felt recoil

 

[thunderchicken]

Yeah -- I had a 12 that I put probably 2500 target loads through before I moved back to Chicago and sold what I had (learned the lesson of not selling guns I *really* like after that.) I know the 12 isn't optimal but for my very recreational shooting it did ok, and everytime I picked the darn thing up it put a smile on my face. Shopping for a replacement right now.

I had a 1200 with a slightly raised rib. It was almost certainly better for trap and I used it as a loaner when I took people out shooting but it just wasn't as enjoyable for me even though I might have broken more clays with it.

There is nothing wrong with shooting a model 12 for trap or any other clays game. What worked to break clays a hundred years ago can still get the job done today. In fact Devon Harris won the IN state trap shoot last month breaking 200x200 with his model 12. How guns are fit and shooting styles/techniques have varied some but the concept is still the same. Focus on the target, move the gun through the target and break the target... Or see bird shoot bird.

There are deals to be had on some model 12's you just have to look for them. Once you reach the appropriate post number (50 I think) to send PM's I can give you a contact that might be able to help you in the hunt. You may ask a mod how many posts are needed to send pm's. Plenty of good options just depends on what you are willing to spend

 

[gregkl]

Thunder, how's the CX working for you?

I really wish I could get into the clay's scene. Just not going on around here during the time I could partake. Hate to have to wait until retirement, but that's what it's looking like right now.

 

[thunderchicken]

Thunder, how's the CX working for you?

I really wish I could get into the clay's scene. Just not going on around here during the time I could partake. Hate to have to wait until retirement, but that's what it's looking like right now.

Man that CX is working very well for me. I only shoot 3- 4 boxes of shells per week most weeks, but I have been consistently breaking 21-22 per round.
I took it to the state shoot and had a stock fitter/custom stock maker check the fit and I will probably be having an adjustable comb installed. I just needed to raise my eye a little bit to get the beads stacked consistently. For now I have a 1/4" piece of comb pad stuck on it. It seems to make the gun mount more consistent. I really like the way those 30" barrels swing so much smoother than my 26" SxS, I was shooting before

In fact, I have recommended looking at the CX or CXT to several people. As far as I am concerned the Citori CX line are the best bang for the buck. Especially for more casual shooters.

 

[larcat]

Thanks, I'll likely take you up on that. Everything I've found so far is either too mashed up for my taste or waay nicer than I need. Just not many of them floating around at the moment it seems.

There is nothing wrong with shooting a model 12 for trap or any other clays game. What worked to break clays a hundred years ago can still get the job done today. In fact Devon Harris won the IN state trap shoot last month breaking 200x200 with his model 12. How guns are fit and shooting styles/techniques have varied some but the concept is still the same. Focus on the target, move the gun through the target and break the target... Or see bird shoot bird.

There are deals to be had on some model 12's you just have to look for them. Once you reach the appropriate post number (50 I think) to send PM's I can give you a contact that might be able to help you in the hunt. You may ask a mod how many posts are needed to send pm's. Plenty of good options just depends on what you are willing to spend

 

[larcat]

Went and checked the place out today -- it's a really beautiful spot. 3 different sporting clays courses, wobble trap, skeet. Kinda pricey but not too bad really. Super well maintained and nice facilities and very nice folks working there. The "easy" sporting clays courses is entirely wooded and overlooking a ravine. Super cool.

Lady is setup for a 2 hr intro lesson next weekend and they've got plenty of good quality guns to fit her on. Super excited!