I recently acquired an M1 and a set of Lyman steel dies and a bag if mixed brass. I ultra sonic cleaned in the hornady solution some brass lubed it with hornady spray lube and resized. Several came out looking like this one with the brass "smeared" some others had rings on them 2/3 way up. Is this something I'm doing wrong? They all took more pressure on the lever than any thing else I load. Is this just how 30 carbine is? I've heard they were thicker cases than most.
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Resizing 30 carbine is this normal?
- Thread starter shawnba67
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The .30 Carbine case also has a very slight taper - it's hard to see but it's there. The case will wedge into the die and stick - especially if not well lubed (even with carbide dies). I used to load them for a buddy who bought the dies for me and I hated loading them. Take your time and go slow and use plenty of lube. I used Lee case lube. Tapered cases suck.
Two things:
Spray on lube sucks.
30 Carbine cases will sometimes gall like that because the chamber it was fired from was sloppy. These guns were turned out in large numbers and some of the chambers cut when a reamer was fresh would be on the large side, so case head expansion was excessive. When you size those back down, what you're seeing can happen. There is nothing wrong with the brass and they are perfectly safe to reload.
Do yourself a favor and apply a small dab of lube on a case neck brush every few cases and lube the inside of the necks. This will reduce case stretching and save you from having to trim a lot of cases. The 30 Carbine headspaces on the mouth like a 9mm, but unlike semi-auto pistol cases, 30 Carbine brass will actually grow and need to be trimmed, over time. The trim-to length from SAAMI is 1.286" and case length can be very critical with this round. I have found any case less than 1.284" may have excessive headspace and result in a FTF, due to a light primer strike. On the other hand, cases longer than about 1.294" will have insufficient headspace and cause the action to not close all the way, so the gun won't even fire.
Bottom line is to lube your 30 Carbine case necks, then check every one for length. Your gun might shoot the shorts fine, but if you experiment a little, you'll learn what length is too long for your rifle. Good luck and let us know if you run into any issues reloading 'em.
Spray on lube sucks.
30 Carbine cases will sometimes gall like that because the chamber it was fired from was sloppy. These guns were turned out in large numbers and some of the chambers cut when a reamer was fresh would be on the large side, so case head expansion was excessive. When you size those back down, what you're seeing can happen. There is nothing wrong with the brass and they are perfectly safe to reload.
Do yourself a favor and apply a small dab of lube on a case neck brush every few cases and lube the inside of the necks. This will reduce case stretching and save you from having to trim a lot of cases. The 30 Carbine headspaces on the mouth like a 9mm, but unlike semi-auto pistol cases, 30 Carbine brass will actually grow and need to be trimmed, over time. The trim-to length from SAAMI is 1.286" and case length can be very critical with this round. I have found any case less than 1.284" may have excessive headspace and result in a FTF, due to a light primer strike. On the other hand, cases longer than about 1.294" will have insufficient headspace and cause the action to not close all the way, so the gun won't even fire.
Bottom line is to lube your 30 Carbine case necks, then check every one for length. Your gun might shoot the shorts fine, but if you experiment a little, you'll learn what length is too long for your rifle. Good luck and let us know if you run into any issues reloading 'em.
Two things:
Spray on lube sucks.
30 Carbine cases will sometimes gall like that because the chamber it was fired from was sloppy. These guns were turned out in large numbers and some of the chambers cut when a reamer was fresh would be on the large side, so case head expansion was excessive. When you size those back down, what you're seeing can happen. There is nothing wrong with the brass and they are perfectly safe to reload.
Do yourself a favor and apply a small dab of lube on a case neck brush every few cases and lube the inside of the necks. This will reduce case stretching and save you from having to trim a lot of cases. The 30 Carbine headspaces on the mouth like a 9mm, but unlike semi-auto pistol cases, 30 Carbine brass will actually grow and need to be trimmed, over time. The trim-to length from SAAMI is 1.286" and case length can be very critical with this round. I have found any case less than 1.284" may have excessive headspace and result in a FTF, due to a light primer strike. On the other hand, cases longer than about 1.294" will have insufficient headspace and cause the action to not close all the way, so the gun won't even fire.
Bottom line is to lube your 30 Carbine case necks, then check every one for length. Your gun might shoot the shorts fine, but if you experiment a little, you'll learn what length is too long for your rifle. Good luck and let us know if you run into any issues reloading 'em.
Wait, what?
Spray on lube does not suck! And it's not just for straight walled pistol rounds!
I've produced more than a couple thousand rounds of rifle ammo with Hornady spray on case lube.
Put cases in case holder
Spray cases in a side to side sweeping motion 12" away from case holder at a 45 degree angle. Do this ON ALL FOUR SIDES of the case to ensure even application. Wait 5 to 10 minutes for lube to set up. Run cases through sizing die. Spraying at a 45 degree angle ensures lube will be applied to the inside of the case mouth.
I've seen the same behavior on many cases of mine that you show in your pic, mostly .308 WIN. It has never been the root cause of function issues in my reloads.
Do a Google search for "stuck case" and see how many of them include the use of spray-on lube. 
I'm not saying it will cause a problem if used correctly, but all it takes is one to ruin your day. Use spray-on lube long enough and the odds are exceptionally high that you'll have a stuck case, if you haven't already. I've been reloading for 25+ years with conventional case lube or sizing die wax and haven't had a stuck case. I've made lots of other dumb mistakes, but not that one...yet.
Because 30 Carbine brass can and does stretch when being resized, and because this round headspaces on the mouth of the cartridge, it is very important to check the length of each case, every time it is resized. This makes it a terrible candidate for typical reloading on a progressive or even turret-style press. Since you're going to be handling the cases more than you would semi-auto pistol or bottle-necked rifle cartridges, I don't really see the value of using spray-on lube.
Another thing I don't like about the spray lubes is the economy of the stuff; all of a sudden I have to add in the cost of keeping a spare can of lube around, where that is never a consideration when using ISD wax. I guess if you're feeding a progressive, or even an indexing turret-style press, the spray-on lube has its place. I'm glad I get to relax and enjoy reloading at a more leisurely pace.
I'm not saying it will cause a problem if used correctly, but all it takes is one to ruin your day. Use spray-on lube long enough and the odds are exceptionally high that you'll have a stuck case, if you haven't already. I've been reloading for 25+ years with conventional case lube or sizing die wax and haven't had a stuck case. I've made lots of other dumb mistakes, but not that one...yet.
Because 30 Carbine brass can and does stretch when being resized, and because this round headspaces on the mouth of the cartridge, it is very important to check the length of each case, every time it is resized. This makes it a terrible candidate for typical reloading on a progressive or even turret-style press. Since you're going to be handling the cases more than you would semi-auto pistol or bottle-necked rifle cartridges, I don't really see the value of using spray-on lube.
Another thing I don't like about the spray lubes is the economy of the stuff; all of a sudden I have to add in the cost of keeping a spare can of lube around, where that is never a consideration when using ISD wax. I guess if you're feeding a progressive, or even an indexing turret-style press, the spray-on lube has its place. I'm glad I get to relax and enjoy reloading at a more leisurely pace.
I used Lee case lube in a tube and just apply a tiny bit to the inside of the die with a Q tip every 10 cases or so. It works pretty well but even with carbide dies - the case fights you all the way. With a steel die I could easily see getting one stuck tightly. The next time someone asks me to load up a bunch of .30 M1 I'm probably going to say - no thanks. I never was a fan of the weapon or the cartridge. A tapered case sounds like something a French engineer would dream up.
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The interwebz has more accounts of fail on ALL topics than it has of success.Do a Google search for "stuck case" and see how many of them include the use of spray-on lube.
Exactly.
No. The odds are not exceptionally high. You are describing a failure to repeat a learned process the same way (or correctly) every time.
Spray on lube did not create the OP's issue. Your description of larger chamber dimensions and resizing cartridges shot through them is the right answer.
And with what facts do you support your opinion?
You are implying you reload ammo for others?????????????????
Brave aren't you?
Or are they the brave ones?
How's your insurance policy cover this enterprise?
Just asking.
I see I wasn't the only grumpy one yesterday.
Since it's my opinion, my 15 years of reloading experience (certainly, not as much as yours or broom's) is where I draw my data from. The first ten with the traditional methods of case lube; the last five with the Hornady One Shot spray lube. I've had one stuck case. One. And that was early on.I know I answered the original question correctly, but the fact remains that more cases get stuck with spray-on lube than for any other reason. It is far easier to use spray-on lube incorrectly, and that's exactly what guys do, sooner or later. Maybe you are very diligent and it won't ever be an issue for you, but do you see how spray-on lube could create a problem for folks who don't pay as much attention to detail as you do? If it works for you, and the way you reload, that's great.
Frankly, for anyone who has reloaded a fair amount of 30 Carbine ammunition, it becomes readily apparent that a spray-on lube offers little advantage. Because the cases must be measured, and some of them likely trimmed/chamfered/deburred, the no-touch aspect of spray-on lube for progressive reloading is moot. ISD wax FTW.
I know I answered the original question correctly, but the fact remains that more cases get stuck with spray-on lube than for any other reason. It is far easier to use spray-on lube incorrectly, and that's exactly what guys do, sooner or later. Maybe you are very diligent and it won't ever be an issue for you, but do you see how spray-on lube could create a problem for folks who don't pay as much attention to detail as you do? If it works for you, and the way you reload, that's great.
Frankly, for anyone who has reloaded a fair amount of 30 Carbine ammunition, it becomes readily apparent that a spray-on lube offers little advantage. Because the cases must be measured, and some of them likely trimmed/chamfered/deburred, the no-touch aspect of spray-on lube for progressive reloading is moot. ISD wax FTW.
You are right. My OCD is strong. As a result I don't get dimples in the shoulder of my bottle neck cartridges because I put on TOO MUCH lube.
From another point of view, this thread has given me some very valuable information. An Auto-Ordinance M1 Carbine is on my 2015 wish list. I'm already collecting components for a caliber I don't own. Who's ever done that before?
You are right. My OCD is strong. As a result I don't get dimples in the shoulder of my bottle neck cartridges because I put on TOO MUCH lube.
From another point of view, this thread has given me some very valuable information. An Auto-Ordinance M1 Carbine is on my 2015 wish list. I'm already collecting components for a caliber I don't own. Who's ever done that before?
Luck Favors The Prepared.
When you start reloading 30 Carbine, you'll already have the knowledge you need to avoid some of the more common mistakes.
Another little tidbit I can offer is if you have a case that is too short, after resizing, remove any lube from the inside of the case mouth and resize it again. You can oftentimes stretch it just enough to avoid excessive headspace and light primer strikes. Crazy, huh?
After this thread, I'm dreading the task of building a thousand rounds of this caliber...
And for the sake of completely highjacking this thread (sorry shawn), this is why I'm looking for an M1 Carbine.
Cannoneer, 284th FAB, 103d Infantry (my dad 1943)
And for the sake of completely highjacking this thread (sorry shawn), this is why I'm looking for an M1 Carbine.
Cannoneer, 284th FAB, 103d Infantry (my dad 1943)
After this thread, I'm dreading the task of building a thousand rounds of this caliber...
And for the sake of completely highjacking this thread (sorry shawn), this is why I'm looking for an M1 Carbine.
Cannoneer, 284th FAB, 103d Infantry (my dad 1943)
If you start with unfired brass, it won't be bad at all. Loading 30 Carbine isn't hard...but RELOADING it is a little more time-consuming than say 9mm.
Major props to your dad. My grandfather carried one as a medic in WWII where he took shrapnel in both legs.
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