Indiana Expunction as a Restoration of Firearm Rights

Kirk Freeman · Jul 30, 2017

STARCOM said:
No, I have copies of all three expungement statutes. I was just asking if you ever heard of someone prosecuted for owning a firearm when they had an expungement from 2013 or 2014. And why are people being issued a LTCH that have 2013 and 2014 expungements if they are not a restoration?

I just don't . . . . Because of the Dual Sovereignty Doctrine, the foundation of American jurisprudence and because Indiana only prohibits firearm possession by DB and 26 different SVFs.

You are asking the distinction between state and federal law?

STARCOM · Jul 30, 2017

Libertarian01 · Aug 4, 2017

STARCOM said:
I'll take that as a no you have never heard of someone prosecuted for owning a firearm when they had an expungement from 2013 or 2014. And no you don't know why people are being issued a LTCH that have 2013 and 2014 expungements.

Talking to lawyers…like pulling teeth to get a simple yes or no.

I learned a long time ago that you cannot get a "simple yes or no" because there are NO simple yes or no questions when dealing with laws. Unique circumstances that come in a myriad of forms can and will alter the answer to the question.

Combine with this the fact that many times we don't phrase questions appropriately and know how to ask a "simple" question requires lawyers to seek clarity by asking their own questions to get at the heart of what we are really asking.

One time during a finance class I just could not get it through my head how you could PROFIT from buying a stock that is going to lose value, by short selling it. It took lots of patience from the professor to reword the explanation several times and me mulling it over for a week (or two) before comprehending the mechanism of making money on something expected to lose value.

Regards,

Doug

MarkC · Aug 4, 2017

It's always fun to have someone ask an attorney a question, and then argue with the attorney about the answer.

Although I'm not saying that's the case here, many times people are seeking validation instead of real answers.

T.Lex · Aug 4, 2017

I had an expunction once. Couldn't sit down for a week.

STARCOM · Aug 4, 2017

Kirk Freeman · Aug 4, 2017

STARCOM said:
I'll take that as a no you have never heard of someone prosecuted for owning a firearm when they had an expungement from 2013 or 2014. And no you don't know why people are being issued a LTCH that have 2013 and 2014 expungements.

Talking to lawyers…like pulling teeth to get a simple yes or no.

That's because the law can be complicated and is not an L. Neil Smith fantasy.

Yes, I have had people with Version 1.0 expungements prosecuted and threatened with prosecution. I went back in, set aside the expunction order, fixed the problem, and then re-did the expungment.

It was long, expensive and made the client mad that they listened to someone with "common sense".

I am happy Indiana has it corrected now. If they would have listened to me several years ago, this issue would not have transpired. But everyone is just so much smarter than me, the guy doing this for 22 years, just ask them.

Libertarian01 · Aug 4, 2017

Kirk Freeman said:
That's because the law can be complicated and is not an L. Neil Smith fantasy.

Yes, I have had people with Version 1.0 expungements prosecuted and threatened with prosecution. I went back in, set aside the expunction order, fixed the problem, and then re-did the expungment.

It was long, expensive and made the client mad that they listened to someone with "common sense".

I am happy Indiana has it corrected now. If they would have listened to me several years ago, this issue would not have transpired. But everyone is just so much smarter than me, the guy doing this for 22 years, just ask them.

Can I interest you into running for office and setting things aright from the inside...?

Kirk Freeman · Aug 4, 2017

Libertarian01 said:
Can I interest you into running for office and setting things aright from the inside...?

I ran 20 years ago. I got 10% of the vote.

Libertarian01 · Aug 5, 2017

Kirk Freeman said:
I ran 20 years ago. I got 10% of the vote.

That is outstanding! What position did you run for? We need more people like you to run, and win, public office.

STARCOM · Aug 20, 2017

Kirk Freeman said:
That's because the law can be complicated and is not an L. Neil Smith fantasy.

Yes, I have had people with Version 1.0 expungements prosecuted and threatened with prosecution. I went back in, set aside the expunction order, fixed the problem, and then re-did the expungment.

It was long, expensive and made the client mad that they listened to someone with "common sense".

I am happy Indiana has it corrected now. If they would have listened to me several years ago, this issue would not have transpired. But everyone is just so much smarter than me, the guy doing this for 22 years, just ask them.

Kirk, are you deceptive in your claims about expungement? Does the confusion = more money in your pockets thought more clients? I think there is MORE to the story in regard to prosecutions. Did any prosecutions you speak of happened after the BATFE changed their tune, was domestic violence an issue, violent felony, methamphetamines, an arrest for “something else” that brought about legal trouble, was it an IC 35-38-9-7 level expungement as a posed to an IC 35-38-9-6 level expungement…etc.

Give the case so people can read the details on Doxpop or equivalent…otherwise it’s just something a lawyer claims…
Please answer like a non-lawyer. Your answers are like a politician…which never gives direct answers.

Kirk Freeman · Aug 20, 2017

Give the case so people can read the details on Doxpop or equivalent…otherwise it’s just something a lawyer claims…
Please answer like a non-lawyer. Your answers are like a politician…which never gives direct answers.

Give details about an expunged case? No. Absolutely not. Don't be foolish.

Kirk Freeman · Aug 20, 2017

Kirk, are you deceptive in your claims about expungement?

The only deception is from Internet Law School grads.

Does the confusion = more money in your pockets thought more clients?

I don't prosecute people for money.

STARCOM · Aug 20, 2017

Case Closed

Kirk Freeman · Aug 20, 2017

Please understand that there is a tremendous amount of misinformation when it comes to gun law.

To the gun culture at large, it's like 8th grade boys talking about sex. No one really knows anything but they are very enthused by the prospect.

People have a general outline of certain things but then use gap-fillers such as Boston T. Party or L. Neil Smith books to fill in their knowledge.

The matter you brought up with the 2 year old DoJ letter was a minefield. I am very happy that this has been de-mined now but it helps no one in the gun culture to create unnecessary confusion over the legal history of Indiana's expungement statue. It was less than optimal. Now, it is much better.

People bring me "magic swords" and "magic bullets" all the time. Remember, the legal Occam's Razor is "it depends".

Stay, Star. Stay and participate and learn. That's why we are all here. The N in INGO stands for knowledge.

Bigtanker · Aug 20, 2017

Kirk Freeman said:
Please understand that there is a tremendous amount of misinformation when it comes to gun law.

To the gun culture at large, it's like 8th grade boys talking about sex. No one really knows anything but they are very enthused by the prospect.

People have a general outline of certain things but then use gap-fillers such as Boston T. Party or L. Neil Smith books to fill in their knowledge.

The matter you brought up with the 2 year old DoJ letter was a minefield. I am very happy that this has been de-mined now but it helps no one in the gun culture to create unnecessary confusion over the legal history of Indiana's expungement statue. It was less than optimal. Now, it is much better.

People bring me "magic swords" and "magic bullets" all the time. Remember, the legal Occam's Razor is "it depends".

Stay, Star. Stay and participate and learn. That's why we are all here. The N in INGO stands for knowledge.

I'm using that last line in my sig line. Thanks.

jamil · Aug 20, 2017

Kirk Freeman said:
Please understand that there is a tremendous amount of misinformation when it comes to gun law.

To the gun culture at large, it's like 8th grade boys talking about sex. No one really knows anything but they are very enthused by the prospect.

People have a general outline of certain things but then use gap-fillers such as Boston T. Party or L. Neil Smith books to fill in their knowledge.

The matter you brought up with the 2 year old DoJ letter was a minefield. I am very happy that this has been de-mined now but it helps no one in the gun culture to create unnecessary confusion over the legal history of Indiana's expungement statue. It was less than optimal. Now, it is much better.

People bring me "magic swords" and "magic bullets" all the time. Remember, the legal Occam's Razor is "it depends".

Stay, Star. Stay and participate and learn. That's why we are all here. The N in INGO stands for knowledge.

At the risk of committing a Denny, the 'N' is the second letter in the state abbreviation for *iNdiana*

Kirk Freeman · Aug 20, 2017

churchmouse · Aug 20, 2017

Kirk Freeman said:

No saving this one Kirk.

jamil · Aug 20, 2017

Hey, I just wanted to get *in* this thread. It seemed like it'd be better than posting popcorn.

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