Doctors Fight the NRA Over Gun Safety (Yahoo Article)

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  • actaeon277

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    While this is not exactly "legislation of the 2nd amendment", I think this goes here.


    Doctors Fight the NRA Over Gun Safety

    An estimated 20,600 people under the age of 25 are injured by a gun every year and 6,570 die, according to the AAP. Guns kill twice as many in this age group as cancer, five times as many as heart disease and 20 times as many as infections. By 2015, guns are expected to surpass motor vehicle crashes as a cause of death for young people, according to the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank

    Gee, up to 25 year olds.
    Wanna bet they included people shot committing crimes.


    Good comments at the bottom though.
     

    Mark 1911

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    Statistics are always easy to skew. The article mentions the doctors met in Vancouver, so one has to ask if the 20,600 injuries of which 6750 were fatalities were only in the US or included Canada or other countries. But in the US alone, over 32,000 died in car crashes in 2011. And the number of gun related deaths is projected to exceed car related deaths by 2015? That means that gun related deaths would have to increase by a factor of almost 5 in the next year, and that is assuming that those gun casualty statistics are limited to the United States. What a bunch of hooey.

    Seems that all too common weapons of the antis are sensationalism, using false statistics, and playing on people's emotions to get a reaction. Honesty has never been their trademark, doctors or otherwise. Just seems particularly bad coming from doctors, they are supposed to be upright and honest.
     
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    VERT

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    3500 people a year drown in swimming pools. Seems to me the AAP would be better off advocating swimming lessons.
     

    BuckCreek

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    I would like to know how many of the 20,600 were shot by an illegally possessed gun, how many were shot by a legally owned gun, how many of the 20,600 shot were criminals, and how many of those doing the shooting were already criminals and thus not legally allowed to own guns. Oh, and I would also like to know how many of those doing the shooting were law abiding citizens defending themselves against a criminal, how the data was collected, the amount of error involved, etc. Until I know at least all of that to me it is nothing more than Anti's making things up or flat out telling lies.
     

    Light

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    I would also like to know how many of these "shooting victims" were people who died due to suicide.... Seems to be something they hardly differentiate from.
     

    actaeon277

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    I would like to know how many of the 20,600 were shot by an illegally possessed gun, how many were shot by a legally owned gun, how many of the 20,600 shot were criminals, and how many of those doing the shooting were already criminals and thus not legally allowed to own guns. Oh, and I would also like to know how many of those doing the shooting were law abiding citizens defending themselves against a criminal, how the data was collected, the amount of error involved, etc. Until I know at least all of that to me it is nothing more than Anti's making things up or flat out telling lies.

    While I'm sure you don't know the exact number, I'm guessing you can figure it's a BIG percentage.
     

    richardraw316

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    While this is not exactly "legislation of the 2nd amendment", I think this goes here.


    Doctors Fight the NRA Over Gun Safety



    Gee, up to 25 year olds.
    Wanna bet they included people shot committing crimes.


    Good comments at the bottom though.
    20+ thousand injured. Does this include people who got pistol whipped? How about a really nasty slide bite? My cousin had his eye a little too close to a scope on a 300 magnum rifle and split his eye brow requiring stitches, does that count? How about twisted my ankle while hunting. That count too?
    Over 6 thousand deaths? How many gang related? Suicides?
    5 times as many than heart disease? Omg. Now that's a scary number. Except how many of you were worried about a heart attack before you turned 25?
    I like smaller samples for these kind of statistics. I went to high school with over 500 other students. In the four years there, no one was killed by a gun. One person was decapitated by a cow. So does this mean cows are 10000000000% more likely to kill you than a gun? Save the world, eat more steak.
     

    EdC

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    I would also like to know how many of these "shooting victims" were people who died due to suicide.... Seems to be something they hardly differentiate from.

    Hard to tell, because they used 25 years old as a cutoff. Using 2010 numbers, the number of murders by the use of a firearm was around 11,000. For 2010, suicides through use of a firearm were about 19,000. One of the "Mind Blowing Facts Nobody Told You About Guns" courtesy of Cracked.

    It's sad that statistics have been misused by some to the point where nobody trusts them. They can be useful for the examination of any issue.
     

    VERT

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    Actually suicides are one statistic that shows a direct correlation to gun ownership. There are more suicides carried out with a gun in homes that own guns. Think about it and it makes sense. Same as my swimming pool example, houses with pools have more drowning a then homes without pools. Plus guns are pretty darned effective tools for committing suicide.
     
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    This information is a little dated, but still not far off (pulled from "Gun Facts" by Guy Smith):



    ACCIDENTAL DEATHS
    Myth: Accidental gun fatalities are a serious problem
    Fact: Firearm misuse causes only a small number of accidental deaths in the U.S.97 For example, compared to being accidentally killed by a firearm, you are:
    • Five times more likely to burn to death
    • Five times more likely to drown
    • 17 times more likely to be poisoned
    • 17 times more likely to fall to your death
    • And 68 times more likely to die in an automobile accident
    97 WISQARS Injury Mortality Report, Center for Disease Control, 2007
    Gun Facts Version 6.2 Page 18
    Copyright 2013, Guy Smith www.GunFacts.info All Rights Reserved
    Fact: In 2007, there were only 54 accidental gun deaths for children under age 13. About 12 times as many children died from drowning during the same period.98
    Fact: In 2007, there were 999 drowning victims and 137 firearm-related accidental deaths in age groups 1 through 19. This despite the fact that firearms outnumber pools by a factor of more than 30:1. Thus, the risk of drowning in a pool is nearly 100 times higher than dying from a firearm-related accident for everyone, and nearly 500 times for children ages 0-5.99
    Fact: Medical mistakes kill 400,000 people per year – the equivalent of almost three fully loaded Boeing 747 jet crashes per day – or about 286 times the rate of all accidental firearm deaths.100 This translates into 1 in 6 doctors causing an accidental death, and 1 in 56,666 gun owners doing the same.
    Fact: Only 2% of gun deaths are from accidents, and some insurance investigations indicate that many of these may not be accidents after all.101
    Fact: Around 2,000 patients each year – six per day – are accidentally killed or injured in hospitals by registered nurses.102
     
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    Actually suicides are one statistic that shows a direct correlation to gun ownership. There are more suicides carried out with a gun in homes that own guns. Think about it and it makes sense. Same as my swimming pool example, houses with pools have more drowning a then homes without pools. Plus guns are pretty darned effective tools for committing suicide.


    But removing guns does not lower the suicide rate. Japan's suicide by gun rate is in the dirt, BUT their suicide rate is much higher than the US. It's a tool.
     

    VERT

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    But removing guns does not lower the suicide rate. Japan's suicide by gun rate is in the dirt, BUT their suicide rate is much higher than the US. It's a tool.

    Wonder if suicide with samurai swords are higher in Japan? I agree with you and we are on the same page. The correct statistic would be to look at total suicide or attempted suicide per capita. Now, I would bet the percentage of successful suicide with firearms is higher then pills? Point is there is a correlation and the antis will use it. Pretty easy to debunk if a person applies just a bit of logic.
     

    EdC

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    But removing guns does not lower the suicide rate. Japan's suicide by gun rate is in the dirt, BUT their suicide rate is much higher than the US. It's a tool.

    Removal of an effective and efficient method of suicide has lowered suicide rates, because suicide is often a decision made over a few seconds or minutes (I'm not talking about the suicidal thoughts, just the actual decision to go ahead with it). If that decision making process gets interrupted and passes, that person may never commit suicide. England, coal gas, head in the oven in the 50's, switch to natural gas in the '70's. Overall suicide rate went down.

    There can be downsides to having firearms around, and regarding suicide, and the popular saying that it's "just a tool" is a red herring. If a person or loved one is suffering from depression, and there are guns around, get the guns out of the house, or locked up, or it can be "Johnny blew his head off with a 12 ga tool." Nobody wants that. Sure, anti 2A folks want to use that as justification for further infringements, but that doesn't mean that there isn't some truth in their observations.

    As to Japan, per capita, the rate is about 22 per 100,000; USA is about 12 per 100,000. So many other factors to consider.
     
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    Removal of an effective and efficient method of suicide has lowered suicide rates, because suicide is often a decision made over a few seconds or minutes (I'm not talking about the suicidal thoughts, just the actual decision to go ahead with it). If that decision making process gets interrupted and passes, that person may never commit suicide. England, coal gas, head in the oven in the 50's, switch to natural gas in the '70's. Overall suicide rate went down.

    There can be downsides to having firearms around, and regarding suicide, and the popular saying that it's "just a tool" is a red herring. If a person or loved one is suffering from depression, and there are guns around, get the guns out of the house, or locked up, or it can be "Johnny blew his head off with a 12 ga tool." Nobody wants that. Sure, anti 2A folks want to use that as justification for further infringements, but that doesn't mean that there isn't some truth in their observations.

    As to Japan, per capita, the rate is about 22 per 100,000; USA is about 12 per 100,000. So many other factors to consider.


    Of course, it's common sense to make it more difficult for a loved one or anyone if you can, more importantly get them the help past their crucial moment. Point is, suicide rates do not drop when guns are made more difficult to get - Japan, Australia, UK, etc. (FBI Uniform Crime Statistics online, BATFE Firearm Commerce Report for 2002. FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, World Health Organization Suicide Prevention country reports)
     
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    Wonder if suicide with samurai swords are higher in Japan? I agree with you and we are on the same page. The correct statistic would be to look at total suicide or attempted suicide per capita. Now, I would bet the percentage of successful suicide with firearms is higher then pills? Point is there is a correlation and the antis will use it. Pretty easy to debunk if a person applies just a bit of logic.


    Gravity and hanging are the heavy hitters in Japan. Lots of stuff to read about "suicide in Japan" on wiki with lots of links if you're really interested. You can also look at state laws aimed at making firearms more difficult to access here in the US - primarily to lower suicide rates - none of them worked. Be glad to e-mail you a copy of "Gun Facts" by Guy Smith.
     

    eldirector

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    I'm still wondering.... How exactly does one catch a bad case of the guns? What medication or therapy does one take to clear up a case of the guns? Is it infectious/contagious?
     

    HoughMade

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    I wonder how many pediatricians know what is being done in their name.

    Anyhoo...

    [video=youtube;ALMCIXL5cMA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALMCIXL5cMA[/video]
     

    EdC

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    I'm still wondering.... How exactly does one catch a bad case of the guns? What medication or therapy does one take to clear up a case of the guns? Is it infectious/contagious?

    :laugh:

    But on the other, in the event I'm negligent and give myself a case of "Glock leg" I wouldn't go to a gunsmith to patch me up, either.

    I think that injuries in the home due to accidents are legitimate health concern, and have been for a long time, and not just for firearms. However, when AAP looked at Sandy Hook, they related it to "gun safety" rather than "crime" it demonstrated their very flawed knee jerk reaction.

    The good news I gleaned from the article is that one of the AAP members in Utah has evolved from the position of gun safety = no guns, to actual gun safety advocacy, with their "Bulletproof Kids" program, partnered up with a local gun shop and Liberty Safe. I always find it encouraging when to very diametrically opposed sides of an issue can actually find something that they agree on, and work together toward that end.

    Unfortunately, that's become rare these days. I think it's because people often equate "cooperation" with "compromise".
     
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