How much difference is there between shooters in different classes? (USPSA)

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • THE BIG SITT

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Aug 14, 2012
    1,480
    48
    Greenwood
    I don't tend to make New Year's resolutions. Instead, I make some personal goals for myself, and I choose to start them at the beginning of a new year. With this being my first year of USPSA shooting, I thought it would be a good idea to set a goal for myself. Originally, I thought I would set my goal at becoming a C class production shooter. I figure C is middle of the road, and with some serious commitment, I should be able to accomplish that.

    But how realistic is that? Initially, D class shooters sound terrible. Then you realize the D class is for the bottom 40% of shooters. Am I really going to be better than 40% of production shooters my first year?

    Obviously the difference between a GM and a C class shooter are going to be definite. But how obvious is the difference between a D and a C, or an A and a M?
     

    Grelber

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Jan 7, 2012
    3,479
    48
    Southern Indiana
    D class is mostly folks who do not shoot very much or who are not as young, sighted, limber, etc., as they would like to be, as far as I can tell. 40% is maybe a good number for the once a month or whenever I get a free kitchen pass group?

    Seems like C class is where you will just sort of fall into if you start shooting on a fairly regular basis.

    B class would require some dedication and at least average physical skills (I'm not sure I'll ever get there, old fart).

    Somewhere between A class and Master I think you have to abandon all other life interests and sell your soul to the devil.

    I could be wrong.
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    D class is the starting point for most. Speed and accuracy is a new thing to many or most who start this sport/game. Everyone except the disable are capable of C class, but as stated above shooting regularly is probably all that is required. There are many middle of the road C class shooters I would take on my side in a gun fight. Many of those same people I would not want shooting at me. A number of year ago there was an article in Frontsight magazine that said B class is to USPSA what the black belt is to martial arts. It went on to say that B class shooters from around 2003 or 2004 would have been winning national championships in the 1980's. I was not shooting then so I have no way of knowing. But USPSA shooting has come a long way since then.

    B class shooter have to do a lot things well in order to earn that classification and even more right to be competitive in a major match. It is going to take practice and effort. It is not going to just happen shooting matches a few times per month.

    A class is a little tougher to achieve and is going to require dedicated practice probably of both the dry fire and live fire variety.

    Master class is tough to get and takes work but you do not have to sell your soul to the devil.

    To move up in classification you have to have a good grip, draw stroke, transition well from target to target, good splits (shot to shot), be able to reload smoothly, and in many cases shoot Strong Hand Only (SHO) and Weak Hand Only). You can make GM without leaving a 3 x 3 box.

    When I first started I often wondered what was a good goal in regards to classification for me. I wondered if I have the dexterity and reflexes to make Master of GM. Had I found out about this sport when I was in my 20's and still had reflexes I feel like GM was possible. Perhaps it still is if I had the time to practice and to train. My point being that A class, Master Class, or GM does not require super human or exceptional physical gifts. Many ordinary folks can get it done if they decide to work at it and make it happen. Selling your soul to the devil might be a faster route.

    I think we are going to see a few GM cards earned in Indiana in 2015.

    My opinions I am sure someone will be along to contradict them shortly.
     
    Last edited:

    THE BIG SITT

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Aug 14, 2012
    1,480
    48
    Greenwood
    Well I guess C class it is. It seems like this is a good goal someone who will have two kids under two, but also has a desire for competition they need to fulfil.

    Coach, the guys you see in M and GM, how long have they been shooting USPSA on average? I'm sure it varies greatly, but would you say these are the guys who have been shooting since they were walking, or just some guys who found the sport as an adult, and decided to dedicate themselves to it?
     

    cschwanz

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Oct 5, 2010
    941
    18
    Fort Wayne
    I started shooting 2010 and my initial classification was C. I had done some shooting in the past so I wasn't totally new to guns, but I think C is very reachable for most people who are competent with firearms and have any sort of motivation to improve themselves.

    I hit B rather quickly (at least at the time I thought it was fast) when I was really trying to improve. Dry-fired regularly, took a couple classes, etc. Again, I don't think B is that hard to get to if you really want it. B class tends to be pretty packed and I think that's where a lot of people stall out.

    I made A by "accident" at a classifier match by ripping a 92% on a stage in late 2013.

    Recently, I made Master within about a 3 month stretch at the end of this past season. I've long since quit caring about the classifier stage at a match and just shot it like I shoot everything else. When I really "tried" to do well, I tanked and got my balls busted for being a sandbagger by my buddies. I would shoot field courses pretty well then blow the classifier. Luckily most matches are mostly field courses so my performance was pretty good despite a lower classification. Wen I quit trying, things started clicking and now I'm Master. I still don't feel like I am a Master class shooter, but we'll see how this season goes.

    Natural skill is a big help, but hard work will get you to any level you want. I read on Enos a long time ago where someone asked what % of people can make A class (or M or GM). One person had a great answer. "100% of those who REALLY WANT to."
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
    63
    IN (a refugee from MD)
    Well I guess C class it is. It seems like this is a good goal someone who will have two kids under two, but also has a desire for competition they need to fulfil.

    Coach, the guys you see in M and GM, how long have they been shooting USPSA on average? I'm sure it varies greatly, but would you say these are the guys who have been shooting since they were walking, or just some guys who found the sport as an adult, and decided to dedicate themselves to it?

    Theres allkinds of folks who make m/gm. How much time/$ are you willing to invest? That affects how fast you'll get there.
    -rvb
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
    63
    IN (a refugee from MD)
    Somewhere between A class and Master I think you have to abandon all other life interests and sell your soul to the devil.

    I made M w 30-60 min of dryfire per night and a few hundred rounds every couple weeks. Hardly soul selling. Most Ms posses the skill set to make GM, but not the consistency.

    Develop a rock solid index, continually improve your fundamentals, and learn to call your shots and you'll start to climb through the ranks in no time.

    -rvb
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    D class is the starting point for most. Speed and accuracy is a new thing to many or most who start this sport/game. Everyone except the disable are capable of C class, but as stated above shooting regularly is probably all that is required. There are many middle of the road C class shooters I would take on my side in a gun fight. Many of those same people I would not want shooting at me. A number of year ago there was an article in Frontsight magazine that said B class is to USPSA what the black belt is to martial arts. It went on to say that B class shooters from around 2003 or 2004 would have been winning national championships in the 1980's. I was not shooting then so I have no way of knowing. But USPSA shooting has come a long way since then.

    B class shooter have to do a lot things well in order to earn that classification and even more right to be competitive in a major match. It is going to take practice and effort. It is not going to just happen shooting matches a few times per month.

    A class is a little tougher to achieve and is going to require dedicated practice probably of both the dry fire and live fire variety.

    Master class is tough to get and takes work but you do not have to sell your soul to the devil.

    To move up in classification you have to have a good grip, draw stroke, transition well from target to target, good splits (shot to shot), be able to reload smoothly, and in many cases shoot Strong Hand Only (SHO) and Weak Hand Only). You can make GM without leaving a 3 x 3 box.

    When I first started I often wondered what was a good goal in regards to classification for me. I wondered if I have the dexterity and reflexes to make Master of GM. Had I found out about this sport when I was in my 20's and still had reflexes I feel like GM was possible. Perhaps it still is if I had the time to practice and to train. My point being that A class, Master Class, or GM does not require super human or exceptional physical gifts. Many ordinary folks can get it done if they decide to work at it and make it happen. Selling your soul to the devil might be a faster route.

    I think we are going to see a few GM cards earned in Indiana in 2015.

    My opinions I am sure someone will be along to contradict them shortly.

    In my 20+ years of involvement with USPSA happenings at a boatload of club matches, a lot of state and section matches, and half a dozen or so Area matches, my observations agree wth Coach's comments above.



    I made M w 30-60 min of dryfire per night and a few hundred rounds every couple weeks. Hardly soul selling. Most Ms posses the skill set to make GM, but not the consistency.

    Develop a rock solid index, continually improve your fundamentals, and learn to call your shots and you'll start to climb through the ranks in no time.

    -rvb

    You and your logic and facts make some of us look bad, sir.

    As an aside, there are different ways to improve in USPSA classification. There is overlap among them, but the intent and the results in terms of repeatable skill level and match performance vary widely.

    The most obvious is to continue to develop fundamentals to the point where being able to shoot classifiers while not pushing your skills to the ragged edge achieves the scores you need. This also takes the most work and consistent dedication.

    Another way is to shoot classifiers over and over and over. Some areas of the country <cough>Ohio<cough> seem to exhibit more of this than others. While it's legitimate practice and you will improve, the ability to shoot specific stages on a specific day does not always translate well to consistently better match performance.

    A third way to is the "hero or zero" (which also comes into play with many who shoot classifier stages dozens of times to get the score they want). This is pushing everything and going as fast as you can, and ultimately hoping that your accuracy is good enough to combine for a high hit factor. There is nothing wrong inherently wrong with this, but it typically does not translate to consistently improving match performance. I'll add that a significant number of highly skilled and successful shooters do this sometimes (or always) on classifiers, but it's in addition to the hard work on the fundamentals and other aspects of shooting, not instead of them.

    Take my comments for what they're worth coming from a perpetual C-class shooter. Ultimately, I'm a much better observer, analyzer, coach, and teacher than I am a player at this shooting game.
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
    63
    IN (a refugee from MD)
    As an aside, there are different ways to improve in USPSA classification. There is overlap among them, but the intent and the results in terms of repeatable skill level and match performance vary widely.

    yes, there are all different ways of improving, however ...they all result in improvement. Some times the classification system doesn't keep up with a persons development, and some times the "match skills" don't keep up with their fundamentals. But in the end you're getting better and the system will settle out in the end once the "best 6 of the last 8" catch up.


    The most obvious is to continue to develop fundamentals to the point where being able to shoot classifiers while not pushing your skills to the ragged edge achieves the scores you need. This also takes the most work and consistent dedication.

    this is the "just shoot" way to approach the classifier. It's a stage in a match you want to win the match, shoot the stage accordingly.

    Another way is to shoot classifiers over and over and over.

    Doing things over and over makes you better? Say it isn't so! :)
    i get the "grandbagger" angle, but who cares. Just means you get to compete against people in your class tht shouldn't be there.

    A third way to is the "hero or zero"

    Hero or zero should be left to the practice range, but it has value. It seldom helps classification %; it's hard to be consistently lucky in our sport.

    -rvb
     

    Grelber

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Jan 7, 2012
    3,479
    48
    Southern Indiana
    Master class is tough to get and takes work but you do not have to sell your soul to the devil.

    I made M w 30-60 min of dryfire per night and a few hundred rounds every couple weeks. Hardly soul selling.

    I knew I should have mentioned the confidentiality clause.

    "Big Sitt" - Where ever you are destined to end up I expect you will have fun with it.
     

    Snizz1911

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 8, 2013
    275
    18
    C class doesn't seem like a very high reaching goal, even if one had limited time/money/talent. A short dry fire routine a few times a week is worth B class.

    But if C class is all you can achieve, you can still win IDPA matches if you wanted.
     

    CB45

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    Mar 29, 2010
    845
    18
    Indianapolis
    D class is the starting point for most. Speed and accuracy is a new thing to many or most who start this sport/game. Everyone except the disable are capable of C class, but as stated above shooting regularly is probably all that is required. There are many middle of the road C class shooters I would take on my side in a gun fight. Many of those same people I would not want shooting at me. A number of year ago there was an article in Frontsight magazine that said B class is to USPSA what the black belt is to martial arts. It went on to say that B class shooters from around 2003 or 2004 would have been winning national championships in the 1980's. I was not shooting then so I have no way of knowing. But USPSA shooting has come a long way since then.

    B class shooter have to do a lot things well in order to earn that classification and even more right to be competitive in a major match. It is going to take practice and effort. It is not going to just happen shooting matches a few times per month.

    A class is a little tougher to achieve and is going to require dedicated practice probably of both the dry fire and live fire variety.

    Master class is tough to get and takes work but you do not have to sell your soul to the devil.

    To move up in classification you have to have a good grip, draw stroke, transition well from target to target, good splits (shot to shot), be able to reload smoothly, and in many cases shoot Strong Hand Only (SHO) and Weak Hand Only). You can make GM without leaving a 3 x 3 box.

    When I first started I often wondered what was a good goal in regards to classification for me. I wondered if I have the dexterity and reflexes to make Master of GM. Had I found out about this sport when I was in my 20's and still had reflexes I feel like GM was possible. Perhaps it still is if I had the time to practice and to train. My point being that A class, Master Class, or GM does not require super human or exceptional physical gifts. Many ordinary folks can get it done if they decide to work at it and make it happen. Selling your soul to the devil might be a faster route.

    I think we are going to see a few GM cards earned in Indiana in 2015.

    My opinions I am sure someone will be along to contradict them shortly.

    This is good Coach!!!

    I've noticed a direct correlation between classification level of involvement in USPSA. Get involved. Learn what skills are needed. Practice those skills.

    My personal belief is that classification goals are often emphasized too heavily by new USPSA shooters. Learn the sport, and it'll be a lot easier to earn higher classification.

    Good luck!
     

    Twangbanger

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Oct 9, 2010
    7,062
    113
    C class doesn't seem like a very high reaching goal, even if one had limited time/money/talent. A short dry fire routine a few times a week is worth B class.

    But if C class is all you can achieve, you can still win IDPA matches if you wanted.

    Doh. Doooohhhhhhh....:popcorn:
     

    romack991

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    May 27, 2012
    707
    18
    Classification is good to group similar shooters into skill levels. But like CB said, new shooters over emphasize the importance.
    You can become a C and not perform any better at matches.

    First decide what you want to improve and then decide to put in the work and develop the skills with whatever time your willing to spend on it. You don't need that much time, just commit the time you have and make the most of it. The problem with most people (in any sport) is not that they have limited time. The problem is that people use the excuse that their time is limited to never make the effort to improve.

    Happy New Year, here's to better shooting in 2015:cheers:
     

    sporter

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 9, 2009
    2,394
    48
    Southern, Indiana
    I would not worry so much about classifications starting out. They are a good or great indicator of shooting skill, but I don't think they necessarily translate into overall match performance.

    USPSA is a game-sport that happens to be centered around shooting. Where people go wrong, is, that I think they put too much stock into the shooting aspect.

    Much of this sport is mental, moving fast, and NOT making mistakes, and shooting stages clean. The planning and execution of stages is where many matches are won and lost. And Risk; how much one is willing to gamble on while going fast.

    I think the dry fire advice is good advice for becoming a better shooter. But overall, it doesn't really tell the story of what makes a good stage/match performing USPSA competitor. Every stage is not a classifier.

    Watch videos of the national champions, and local guys winning matches. Or people shooting USPSA in general. Watch how people come into target arrays, watch how they move, when and where they are changing mags, or adding extra shots. Be mindful of what they are doing when the buzzer goes off, where their eyes are, etc.. (studying scores, points, times is also a good insight of a previous match)

    YMMV
     
    Last edited:

    shawnba67

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 6, 2012
    693
    18
    So Indiana
    One helluva good goal would be to shoot an entire stage all "Alpha's" then an entire match. You do that and you'll be impressed with yourself.
     

    U.S. Patriot

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 87.5%
    7   1   0
    Jan 30, 2009
    9,815
    38
    Columbus
    I made D class this year, because of one bad classifier. My stage planning, movement, reloads, and split times have improved. In that, shooting faster has affected my accuracy. You will never improve if you don't push yourself and step outside your comfort zone. I know what I need to work on, and it's up to me. I can say that USPSA has been a huge lesson when it comes to shooting. My goal for the new year is to make C class, then push for B class. I know I can do it, it's a matter of getting it done.
     

    VERT

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    23   0   0
    Jan 4, 2009
    9,801
    113
    Seymour
    One helluva good goal would be to shoot an entire stage all "Alpha's" then an entire match. You do that and you'll be impressed with yourself.

    This is good advice for the first match. Concentrate on getting good hits and being safe. Have a good first experience then build from that. I have actually shot all Alphas on stages. Problem is my time sucked and I got my butt stomped. I have also moved fast and missed. What a fun game!

    I honestly don't know what my classification would be since I am not a USPSA member. I only shoot at the local club, so maybe half dozen times a year. I admit that I don't practice like I should. Knowing some other shooters I can say that moving past C class would take some dedication and shooting more then once a month.
     
    Top Bottom