Indecent exposure in public library

rw02kr43 · Oct 11, 2017

My wife is having an issue at a library she works at. There's this guy that comes in almost daily and gets on the computers and watches videos that are almost soft core porn, but not quite. Lube and condom ads, stuff like that. He has his hands down his pants the whole time and sits there and watches the librarians be disgusted by him. They aren't allowed to call the police, so they complained to the branch manager. He told them that they have to catch the guy in the act in order to do anything. Well, they all have. The manager has not. Also found out, that that also isn't the policy. He's just saying that so he doesn't have to deal with it. So, my wife went over his head to his boss and she is appalled by how it is handled and will be visiting the branch today. That creates the awkward situation of my wife and her boss and her going over his head on this. The person on the computer also has a history of being violent, so my wife and the other librarians are afraid to confront him. I'm looking for any advice, and would like to know if this is something that the police can be called for, of if the branch manager has to take care of it?

Thanks
Jason

HoughMade · Oct 11, 2017

So they are forbidden by the boss from calling the police? That makes no sense. He's thinking, what? No patrons have seen this?

Call the police.

JettaKnight · Oct 11, 2017

rw02kr43 said:
... They aren't allowed to call the police, ...

Say what?!

ISP 5353 · Oct 11, 2017

Ditto^^^^^^ Call the police! Video is also nice to have to give the officers upon their arrival.

Route 45 · Oct 11, 2017

Indiana Code 35-45-4-1
Sec. 1 . (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally, in a public place:
(1) engages in sexual intercourse;

(2) engages in other sexual conduct (as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-221.5 );

(3) appears in a state of nudity with the intent to arouse the sexual desires of the person or another person; or

(4) fondles the person's genitals or the genitals of another person;

commits public indecency, a Class A misdemeanor.

(b) A person at least eighteen (18) years of age who knowingly or intentionally, in a public place, appears in a state of nudity with the intent to be seen by a child less than sixteen (16) years of age commits public indecency, a Class A misdemeanor.

(c) However, the offense under subsection (a) or (b) is a Level 6 felony if the person who commits the offense has a prior unrelated conviction:
(1) under subsection (a) or (b); or

(2) in another jurisdiction, including a military court, that is substantially equivalent to an offense described in subsection (a) or (b).

(d) As used in this section, “nudity” means the showing of the human male or female genitals, pubic area, or buttocks with less than a fully opaque covering, the showing of the female breast with less than a fully opaque covering of any part of the nipple, or the showing of covered male genitals in a discernibly turgid state.

(e) A person who, in a place other than a public place, with the intent to be seen by persons other than invitees and occupants of that place:

(1) engages in sexual intercourse;

(2) engages in other sexual conduct (as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-221.5 );

(3) fondles the person's genitals or the genitals of another person; or

(4) appears in a state of nudity;

where the person can be seen by persons other than invitees and occupants of that place commits indecent exposure, a Class C misdemeanor.

Who is telling them that they are not allowed to call the police? That's ridiculous. The police will investigate an anonymous call, so I'd let the police handle the situation. Especially if this guy is potentially violent.

I'm not sure what kind of manager thinks that it is acceptable to let someone come into the library and pleasure himself in front of everyone.

hoosierdoc · Oct 11, 2017

Unfortunately there are stupid court rulings on this. Not sure they can do much. Maybe shut down computers for "maintenance" when he shows up?

look him up on sex offender registry, maybe he's on there and can be nailed for being there?

Tactically Fat · Oct 11, 2017

Your wife may also have a sexual harassment case against her boss for him saying they can't call the police...and his not wanting to confront the situation.

ALL the employees may have a sexual harassment case, actually. If they're inclined - they should look into that.

Route 45 · Oct 11, 2017

Tactically Fat said:
Your wife may also have a sexual harassment case against her boss for him saying they can't call the police...and his not wanting to confront the situation.

ALL the employees may have a sexual harassment case, actually. If they're inclined - they should look into that.

Yep. Seems like a hostile work environment to me.

HoughMade · Oct 11, 2017

Tactically Fat said:
Your wife may also have a sexual harassment case against her boss for him saying they can't call the police...and his not wanting to confront the situation.

ALL the employees may have a sexual harassment case, actually. If they're inclined - they should look into that.

At the very least, she has a lawsuit if she is fired or disciplined for reporting this to the police. Can't take adverse action against a person for making a report of unlawful behavior to the authorities.

JettaKnight · Oct 11, 2017

...so have her start documenting interaction with her superiors. Keep a journal.

hoosierdoc · Oct 11, 2017

What would happen if a good old boy showed up and turned off the guy's monitor?

T.Lex · Oct 11, 2017

Old school librarians are hardcore (pardon the pun) about maintaining confidences of the patrons. This goes back to when certain books were banned, or reading certain political treatises could get you listed as a card carrying member of the wrong political party. It is like a sacred confidence to some of them.*

Now, I'm not aware of that ever extending to indecent exposure/porn, but that might explain the reluctance to get police involved.

* I think it was the movie Se7en that had a part where the investigator checked with a local library contact and got a confidential list of people who'd checked out a certain book. That's the kind of thing most old school librarians would never do.

CampingJosh · Oct 11, 2017

rw02kr43 said:
He has his hands down his pants the whole time

Route 45 bolded the nudity portion, but I think this is the part that definitely applies.

Route 45 said:
Indiana Code 35-45-4-1

(4) fondles the person's genitals or the genitals of another person;

commits public indecency, a Class A misdemeanor.

KittySlayer · Oct 11, 2017

hoosierdoc said:
Unfortunately there are stupid court rulings on this. Not sure they can do much. Maybe shut down computers for "maintenance" when he shows up?

Have a friend that is a retired librarian in Allen County Public Library system. Same experiences of being unable to do anything with the perverts. They never quite cross that bright line of breaking the law where the police can do something. Instead the perverts just hang out in the grey area where police, courts, administration cannot or will not do anything. Only telling you this so you realize how frustrating it will be to cause any change to happen, not that your fight isn't a valiant one.

My suggestion is to run it up the line and when nothing happens have the email address of the highest person who will do nothing printed on a piece of paper. Then when any other patron (taxpayer) complains simply hand them the email address so they can direct their complaint to the right person. May not be a good career move.

KittySlayer · Oct 11, 2017

hoosierdoc said:
What would happen if a good old boy showed up and turned off the guy's monitor?

Perhaps there would be something blocking the view of the security camera at that very same moment.

chezuki · Oct 11, 2017

hoosierdoc said:
What would happen if a good old boy showed up and turned off the guy's monitor?

Are we taking volunteers?

MCgrease08 · Oct 11, 2017

T.Lex said:
Old school librarians are hardcore (pardon the pun) about maintaining confidences of the patrons. This goes back to when certain books were banned, or reading certain political treatises could get you listed as a card carrying member of the wrong political party. It is like a sacred confidence to some of them.*

Now, I'm not aware of that ever extending to indecent exposure/porn, but that might explain the reluctance to get police involved.

* I think it was the movie Se7en that had a part where the investigator checked with a local library contact and got a confidential list of people who'd checked out a certain book. That's the kind of thing most old school librarians would never do.

Wasn't this addressed as part of the Patriot Act post 9-11?

Section 214-216 gave LEAs expanded authority to obtain library records, monitor electronic communications and prohibit libraries or librarians from informing users of such monitoring or information requests.

Source is from San Francisco Public Library (USA Patriot Act and Library Confidentiality FAQ page).

T.Lex · Oct 11, 2017

MCgrease08 said:
Wasn't this addressed as part of the Patriot Act post 9-11?

Section 214-216 gave LEAs expanded authority to obtain library records, monitor electronic communications and prohibit libraries or librarians from informing users of such monitoring or information requests.

Source is from San Francisco Public Library (USA Patriot Act and Library Confidentiality FAQ page).

Yeah. Why do you think they wanted access to that info?

But, having worked in and spent a great deal of time in libraries over the years, I've rarely seen little old blue haired ladies (outside of a cafeteria) get so worked up as when they imagined authorities trying to infringe on patrons' right to read whatever they wanted without fear of repercussions. Seriously, some of those ladies would have gone to jail before giving up that kind of info.

halfmileharry · Oct 11, 2017

hoosierdoc said:
What would happen if a good old boy showed up and turned off the guy's monitor?

On the intervention thinking....

What about having someone start taking pics of the fruit and telling him they're going on YouTube?
That being finding someone with the cajones to confront the perp or perv. Your choice.

HoughMade · Oct 11, 2017

T.Lex said:
Yeah. Why do you think they wanted access to that info?

But, having worked in and spent a great deal of time in libraries over the years, I've rarely seen little old blue haired ladies (outside of a cafeteria) get so worked up as when they imagined authorities trying to infringe on patrons' right to read whatever they wanted without fear of repercussions. Seriously, some of those ladies would have gone to jail before giving up that kind of info.

Yeah....this isn't really that.

Trespass the guy.

Indecent exposure in public library

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