Preparing for the Drones

[Liberty's Teeth]

Here is a little video I did on a drones primary set of eyes, the thermal imager. Drones use TI to detect targets and can see in complete darkness. I hope you all can store this information at the back of your head if you ever have a drone on your tail.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-4BN5LttYQ

 

[Survivalcookie]

Here is a little video I did on a drones primary set of eyes, the thermal imager. Drones use TI to detect targets and can see in complete darkness. I hope you all can store this information at the back of your head if you ever have a drone on your tail.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-4BN5LttYQ

Good video...thanks for making it. Can a drone see thought mylar, if it is not up against your body.

 

[the1kidd03]

Good video...thanks for making it. Can a drone see thought mylar, if it is not up against your body.

Mylar dissipates heat better than most materials. That said, it's not exempt from laws of physics. It will still "absorb" your body heat to SOME degree if in contacting distance such as clothing. If you could craft a method of layering the mylar in a functional manner with space between the two layers, that would be about the most effective method I can think of without having a FLIR to test.

The first layer would "absorb" (heat transference) some of the heat and show through the other side. If you can "see" it on the other side than that heat is also emitting on that other side, but it will be to a much lesser degree. An added layer of this material on top of that would aid in concealing it much better, especially if you could introduce a gap of air between the two.

 

[Liberty's Teeth]

Thermal doesn't see "through" much of anything. Thermal basically reads the surface temperature of an object. Mylar has a high emissivity. It suffers from the same drawbacks of glass. It looks “out of place” in the environment and sticks out like a sore thumb. the1kidd03 is on to something though. Stay tuned and subscribe as that is in a sense where I will be headed on my thermal imaging series.

 

[the1kidd03]

Thermal doesn't see "through" much of anything. Thermal basically reads the surface temperature of an object. Mylar has a high emissivity. It suffers from the same drawbacks of glass. It looks “out of place” in the environment and sticks out like a sore thumb. the1kidd03 is on to something though. Stay tuned and subscribe as that is in a sense where I will be headed on my thermal imaging series.

I have limited experience working with mylar directly, but given the properties it is said to have it's entirely feasible to develop a layered fabric which will defeat FLIR.

The outer layer should be one which fits into its surroundings (obviously). The layer directly under that should be a layer of mylar. Then a layer of a some sort of porous cloth/material which allows adequate air flow to help defeat and/or distribute some of the transferred heat emitting from the next (1st) layer of mylar.

Something to this effect will work relatively well for someone who has more time to play with and capability to test its true limitations. Of course, everything has limitations. The more heat your body produces the more it will begin to render such a design less effective and making you more noticeable.

 

[cosermann]

I have a solution based on this fact: "Resting or slowly moving [polar] bears lose so little heat across their surface that they are difficult to locate using infrared thermal imaging apparatus." [1]

So, there you go, just kill a polar bear, cut him open, and crawl inside (a la Han Solo/Luke Skywalker).

[1] - http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/83/6/997.short

 

[WETSU]

Okay, I have used thermals (good, mil grade) and tested them, in the field, year round against mylar, space blankets etc. You will not be able to craft a field expedient, effective counter measure against thermals. Period. You have to go to ground, and get behind , or under something of substance.

This is not theory, or youtubes or the internet knowledge. I am talking real world, and what works.

Keep working on it.

 

[the1kidd03]

This is not theory, ..... I am talking real world, and waht works.

you mean like the theories which developed and designed those awesome military technologies...

Every technological advancement starts as an idea, gets tested, refined, and tested more.

 

[Liberty's Teeth]

Okay, I have used thermals (good, mil grade) and tested them, in the field, year round against mylar, space blankets etc. You will not be able to craft a field expedient, effective counter measure against thermals. Period. You have to go to ground, and get behind , or under something of substance.

This is not theory, or youtubes or the internet knowledge. I am talking real world, and waht works.

Keep working on it.

I think there might be ways to defeat them, at least for a time. The camera I used is pretty decent it is just longer range. I couldn't get far enough away to be in focus. You will see in my upcoming videos.

 

[cosermann]

What, you don't like the polar bear carcass method?
I realize it presents a few "difficulties."

 

[diablo750]

How about this

I'm thinking a woven wool and fiber glass blanket. It would be sort of a thermal camo.

 

[ryanmercer]

We've seen drones take off over by Rolls Royce's two hangars at IND every now and then...

 

[Liberty's Teeth]

Wool might work as an insulator but you still need something with reflects nearly all heat.

 

[ecross0351]

I know Forward Looking InfraRed (flir) cannot see through glass. Flir picks up on heat so if you're standing next to it you will be seen but as soon as you walk behing the glass you will disappear. That being said the system also has just a magnification mode, its basically like looking through a giant pair for binos so either way you're screwed.

 

[ashby koss]

Are drones protected against EMP blasts?

 

[052.5GT]

Lots of good discussion here. It really is going to depend on your environment. In the woods, obviously using glass or something like that isnt going to be good because it is going to stand out like a big black bullseye. In the city, windows laying in alleys could be quite common, and could be used to cover an entrance to an underground retreat. But, like wetsu said, you need something that is not going to transfer your heat signature, a large mass/building/ground between you.

When shooting a SASS with thermal I could easily see all the mortar joints and studs and rebar in a cinder block building that was being used as a "backstop"

 

[the1kidd03]

Are drones protected against EMP blasts?

Highly doubtful. The ones I'm familiar with are built REALLY flemsily. They could easily be taken down by civilians with a little enginuity and a means to deliver at altitude accurately.

 

[Liberty's Teeth]

Lots of good discussion here. It really is going to depend on your environment. In the woods, obviously using glass or something like that isnt going to be good because it is going to stand out like a big black bullseye. In the city, windows laying in alleys could be quite common, and could be used to cover an entrance to an underground retreat. But, like wetsu said, you need something that is not going to transfer your heat signature, a large mass/building/ground between you.

When shooting a SASS with thermal I could easily see all the mortar joints and studs and rebar in a cinder block building that was being used as a "backstop"

I still disagree with Wetsu. The principals are simple. There are materials that have low emissivity, like aluminum foil, polished silver, polished brass, etc. These materials can reflect 97 to 98% of the heat transmitted towards them. That is how a thin Mylar space blanket keeps you warm. Simply holding a thermal blanket between you and a thermal camera will render you invisible. This same principle is also what makes the thermal blanket a poor choice for going undetected. It appears as a black object to the camera.

If one were to find a material that matches the emissivity of the background and mate it to something like Mylar it would render you effectively invisible...until the outer material warmed to a temperature higher than background. THAT my friends is the issue.

So, if you can isolate the outer material from your body heat you can indeed become invisible to a thermal camera. Something like a Mylar, insulator, Mylar, matching material would do the trick. It may take Mylar, insulator, Mylar, insulator, matching material. As with all things Thermodynamic the heat has to go somewhere, though. This is where the time element comes into play. How long will this work? Hence the subject for my next video...I don't know the answer.

 

[ashby koss]

Highly doubtful. The ones I'm familiar with are built REALLY flemsily. They could easily be taken down by civilians with a little enginuity and a means to deliver at altitude accurately.

Good to hear.
I happen to be very good at electromagnetic things. I actually get paid for it...

 

[T.Lex]

Some technology exists:
'Ghost' Camouflage Hides from FLIR | Military.com

With this technology v. tactics discussion, I think defensive tactics against FLIR/UV are better than trying to come up with a technology solution, at least in a field expedient sense.

How often will anyone "know" if they're being targeted by FLIR? An assumption would have to be made that FLIR is ALWAYS a possible threat, so any defensive measure would have to be almost permanent.

So, consistent tactics to stymie FLIR (IMHO) would be better than trying to come up with some kind of temporary technological fix. Granted, in certain situations when it is clear that FLIR is in the area, the mentioned "wool blanket" trick might suffice as a tactic.

All IMHO (untested in any sort of fieldcraft).