Aquaponics

[Khazik]

So recently I've decided I'm going to start an Aquaponic system this year. Depending on whats available I'll do an indoor IBC tank setup in the basement w/lighting, or an outdoor setup which I'd prefer due to the space available but dread because I'll have to do a double wall hoophouse setup to ensure insulation during the cold months. I'm a very proficient gardener: growing 7+ varieties of tomatoes with Cherokee purples > 1 lb on the vine, prolific squash so big I can use 'em as weapons, shade compost, in-garden composting, working with self-seeded Tulsi basil, even prevented an outbreak of cherry tomatoes gone wild; so I know I can handle seedlings, transplanting & cloning. The fish seem self-sufficient after cycling, and given some quality feed I've found & Duckweed I can grow.

My end goal is to have a setup running on a deep-cycle battery charging solar power system (IMO required for Aquaponics) with an automatic feeder & organic fish feed available for any vacations/time away. I was thinking Tilapia & catfish in a CHOP-PIST (Constant Height One Pump-Pump In Sump Tank) system with at least 3 medium-based grow beds, which would then flow into a trough for duckweed, then into the sump. But I have problems...

Feasibility of double-wall "trapped air" insulated hoophouse/structure around aquaponic system & water heaters for heating during cold months.
What solar panels/solar system to get & where.
Where to get fish fingerlings/frys to start the system once cycled.
Where to get IBC tanks for grow beds & fish?
Possible while keeping Aquaponic system (not solar system, I know that'll be pricey) to about $250 MAX?

Anyone have any input? I saw someone open a thread on Aquaponics last year but didn't see it end out anywhere that would help w/my questions. Honestly the whole thing seems very very simple, especially if built right (which I will do), I dont know why everyone doesn't do this. What am I missing here?

 

[Slawburger]

For fish try here: IAAI_Members_Selling_Fish

Here in Southern Indiana the "fish truck" makes scheduled stops at places (generally feed stores) and delivers pond stock that you pre-order a few times each year. That is the easiest way but you could probably contact one of the sellers above and make arrangements.

 

[Darral27]

I very well may have been the OP of the thread a year ago. I did buy the book for the aquaponics set up and it is very interesting. About as far as I got is buying the 3 55 gallon barrels. I did set up a very insulated room in my garage that can easily be heated. I bought most of the PVC I would need but I am not the most mechanically inclined person and never got around to actually setting it up. I would love to see somebody's fully operating system as well as get some more information. Glad to see this brought back up.

 

[Trav43]

I have recently been looking at this idea also, you seem to be a bit further into it than I am. As for the tote containers craigslist always has some on there, but generally not free or even cheap. Harbor Freight has a very small panel that may run a pump, or could use more than one panel pump combo. Or the other possibility would be gravity feed with a siphon. If you would be interested in sharing where you have found any good info other than youtube, it would be appreciated.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

You'll also need quite the ventilation system.

 

[Khazik]

For fish try here: IAAI_Members_Selling_Fish

Nice, bookmarked for later, thanks!

I very well may have been the OP of the thread a year ago. I did buy the book for the aquaponics set up and it is very interesting. About as far as I got is buying the 3 55 gallon barrels. I did set up a very insulated room in my garage that can easily be heated. I bought most of the PVC I would need but I am not the most mechanically inclined person and never got around to actually setting it up. I would love to see somebody's fully operating system as well as get some more information. Glad to see this brought back up.

Yep it was you. I might post pics as I go through the process. At the moment I'm at the stage where I'm locating supplies based on what style of setup I'll be using. Watching all the youtube videos of people and their setups just gets me itchy to do it.

I have recently been looking at this idea also, you seem to be a bit further into it than I am. As for the tote containers craigslist always has some on there, but generally not free or even cheap. Harbor Freight has a very small panel that may run a pump, or could use more than one panel pump combo. Or the other possibility would be gravity feed with a siphon. If you would be interested in sharing where you have found any good info other than youtube, it would be appreciated.

I'll be doing a catfish/tilapia tank, so I'll need a tall tank. I was thinking a 4 ft water line minimum. The tilapia I'll have to harvest all of 'em when the colder months come, catfish can live through the winter. Downside is I believe I'll have to do an outdoor system... So far the system I have designed thus far (CHOP PIST). Overall on paper dimensions are 12'L x 4'W x 5'H. This is with a 4'x6' medium based grow bed and two 2'x4' duckweed troughs, which will then overflow into the sumptank using a screen to keep the duckweed from entering it. Pump in the sump at 2', goes up to fishtank at 3' head (5' tall overall connection) for a 1' drop for airation into fishtank. Then SLO (Solids Lifting Overflow) into the medium based grow beds. I'll probably look at doing clay pebbles based on reviews from a site I found on Aquaponics; then bell siphon into the duckweed troughs.

With that setup, it filters the solids in the media (need worms in there to assist), and further cleans the water with the duckweed troughs, which will be standing water until the siphons kick in (I was thinking together or in sequence), so the water is cleaned more before goin to the sump tank. Also with this design as I've read, the pump in sump doesn't touch the fish solids, so the pumps last longer (which is always ideal).

For an outdoor setup, I'm going to have to get very creative on insulation for the fish. I wish I could do inside but I'm just shy of the square footage requirements by about 6-10 SqFt.... at least for the system design I have currently. Gonna try for a slightly smaller tank, or set it higher and go from there in design. An indoor setup would be far easier, and I could work in light wattage requirements for my solar necessities.

I'm still looking up all the solar stuff. It's a lot of reading, but I've got no other projects/puzzles to solve. Sucks being INTJ sometimes...

You'll also need quite the ventilation system.

From everything I've read & watched, no one complained about any smells. If outside it wouldn't be an issue, if inside it's still not an issue cuz it'd be in a separate room in the basement

*Edit* If anyone has a problem with forgetting to water plants. Look up how to build a Wicking Bed (primarily used in raised bed gardens). Seems about the smartest thing to do in Indiana, where a 4 month drought will just show up to the party like the arrogant prick of a cousin no one wants to ask to leave cuz they're family....

 

[mohrpork]

I recently toured Endive in California, check out there site. As a farmer it was very eye opening of what you can do with hydroponics.

 

[Zoub]

I would not do it in the house. If so, you need to plan to capture and rotate all air, otherwise you can expect your house to be condemned and destroyed by mold. So if you have to build a completely sealed space in the basement, then circulate air, exhaust air and bring in fresh dry air, which in winter will need to be heated before moving it over the plants, you are not saving much over a green house. I am not sure how familiar you are with indoor grow lighting but that is a also a factor year round. Closed or open loop to cool lights and handle heat generated by lights.

Now, these are all issues just with plants. With hydro you are adding a lot more moisture to the space. So if you don't have a lot if experience with air flow negative and positive in a closed space and all the issues above, you are in for a shock above and beyond your electric bill. There is no getting around the fact massive amounts of heat are needed, even indoors.

To be clear ventilation. Is not about smell, it's about fresh air for plants and humidity control of the whole space, along with temp control, during both lights on and lights off periods. Do the growing without the fish, you will learn a lot, and there will be huge learning curves and at times problems. IMHO add fish, build a dedicated building for it.

dont forget you need two areas of lighting, vegetation and flowering.

I would also add 12x4 is not all that big and you have to account for space air around it. Frankly 8x20 is not all that big and 4 times bigger than your planned space. Do the plants and get them right first, that would be my advice. A closed off controlled space in garage or basement works but study up.

the guys in Milwaukee give tours and they even do worms too. Another thing worth seeing is any DNR fishery location, take a tour. The one SW of Indy is great.

 

[KC101]

You may want to check out Worms Way in Bloomington, They specialize in hydroponics and have been very helpful in the past.

 

[Jason R. Bruce]

What am I missing here?

From my experience in greenhouses, hydroponics and aquaculture... I think this following posts best answers your question. This whole project will revolve around environmental control. Air circulation and ambient temperatures are critical components in this project, not ancillary considerations.

On these recent sunny days hovering in the mid-upper 40's our greenhouse fan systems are cranking hard to keep fresh air flowing and throttling temperatures back below 115 degrees. When the sun sets, indoor temps will match outdoor ambient temperatures within 30 minutes unless heat is applied. Do not underestimate the necessity of fresh air, air movement and a wide range of temperature adjustments.

I would not do it in the house. If so, you need to plan to capture and rotate all air, otherwise you can expect your house to be condemned and destroyed by mold. So if you have to build a completely sealed space in the basement, then circulate air, exhaust air and bring in fresh dry air, which in winter will need to be heated before moving it over the plants, you are not saving much over a green house. I am not sure how familiar you are with indoor grow lighting but that is a also a factor year round. Closed or open loop to cool lights and handle heat generated by lights.

Now, these are all issues just with plants. With hydro you are adding a lot more moisture to the space. So if you don't have a lot if experience with air flow negative and positive in a closed space and all the issues above, you are in for a shock above and beyond your electric bill. There is no getting around the fact massive amounts of heat are needed, even indoors.

To be clear ventilation. Is not about smell, it's about fresh air for plants and humidity control of the whole space, along with temp control, during both lights on and lights off periods. Do the growing without the fish, you will learn a lot, and there will be huge learning curves and at times problems. IMHO add fish, build a dedicated building for it.

dont forget you need two areas of lighting, vegetation and flowering.

I would also add 12x4 is not all that big and you have to account for space air around it. Frankly 8x20 is not all that big and 4 times bigger than your planned space. Do the plants and get them right first, that would be my advice. A closed off controlled space in garage or basement works but study up.

the guys in Milwaukee give tours and they even do worms too. Another thing worth seeing is any DNR fishery location, take a tour. The one SW of Indy is great.

 

[Khazik]

From my experience in greenhouses, hydroponics and aquaculture... I think this following posts best answers your question. This whole project will revolve around environmental control. Air circulation and ambient temperatures are critical components in this project, not ancillary considerations.

On these recent sunny days hovering in the mid-upper 40's our greenhouse fan systems are cranking hard to keep fresh air flowing and throttling temperatures back below 115 degrees. When the sun sets, indoor temps will match outdoor ambient temperatures within 30 minutes unless heat is applied. Do not underestimate the necessity of fresh air, air movement and a wide range of temperature adjustments.

I've thought about all the space and everything, and now I'm looking at doing it outside. Problem is that I'll have to build all the grow beds and tanks using pond liners, and insulate them somehow (I was thinking styrofoam or cellulose) and include a water heater or two depending on what would be needed. Catfish overwinter and Tillapia during summer only. Dont think I'd be able to grow plants in winter unless I built a double-wall hoop house with cold-weather crops, but even then I'm skeptical.

My only concern with doing it outside is the over-winter part.

I would not do it in the house. If so, you need to plan to capture and rotate all air, otherwise you can expect your house to be condemned and destroyed by mold. So if you have to build a completely sealed space in the basement, then circulate air, exhaust air and bring in fresh dry air, which in winter will need to be heated before moving it over the plants, you are not saving much over a green house. I am not sure how familiar you are with indoor grow lighting but that is a also a factor year round. Closed or open loop to cool lights and handle heat generated by lights.

Now, these are all issues just with plants. With hydro you are adding a lot more moisture to the space. So if you don't have a lot if experience with air flow negative and positive in a closed space and all the issues above, you are in for a shock above and beyond your electric bill. There is no getting around the fact massive amounts of heat are needed, even indoors.

To be clear ventilation. Is not about smell, it's about fresh air for plants and humidity control of the whole space, along with temp control, during both lights on and lights off periods. Do the growing without the fish, you will learn a lot, and there will be huge learning curves and at times problems. IMHO add fish, build a dedicated building for it.

dont forget you need two areas of lighting, vegetation and flowering.

I would also add 12x4 is not all that big and you have to account for space air around it. Frankly 8x20 is not all that big and 4 times bigger than your planned space. Do the plants and get them right first, that would be my advice. A closed off controlled space in garage or basement works but study up....

I wasn't worried about any of the moisture or airflow in the room in the basement as that's the room we have plants in right now, it's an unfinished basement with concrete walls & floor and already leaks after melting snow or heavy rain so we run a dehumidifier in there constantly. I dont know what's on the wood beams for the "ceiling" down there but there's been no mold so far and I've seen some nice puddles down there before; so the only new thing I'd have to consider is airflow. Granted 12x4 isn't a big space, so neither would be the system. The indoor scale would be mostly a hobby size for the occasional peppers, herbs and fish when they're ready, but outdoor... @_@ I'll have to try to not go crazy.

We're going to turn some plots of our gardens into wicking beds this year so that will eat up some funds. we're thinking 3 5'x8' areas minimum with 4" deep of rock-type medium.... ya. After the drought we had in 2012, we realized we had to do something practical and efficient for water in our "field" garden.

 

[Onionsanddragons]

Stock tanks can be used to good effect also.

My biggest suggestion, if you are serious about this, is to plan more and save longer. The larger your aquaponics system is, the more stable it is. You will probably kill everything at least once before you get it right. But, with a smaller system any small issue can totally throw off your balance and kill everything very quickly. A larger system has much greater tolerances, and can self adapt more than a small system.

i will see if I can find a couple videos I am reminded of and link them after work today.

 

[Khazik]

Stock tanks can be used to good effect also.

My biggest suggestion, if you are serious about this, is to plan more and save longer. The larger your aquaponics system is, the more stable it is. You will probably kill everything at least once before you get it right. But, with a smaller system any small issue can totally throw off your balance and kill everything very quickly. A larger system has much greater tolerances, and can self adapt more than a small system.

i will see if I can find a couple videos I am reminded of and link them after work today.

Yep, I've done more thinking and planning, and realized what I want & what I need (through my own reasoning) is going to cost at least $500; about 1 weeks pay for me, which I'm happy with, even with 2 weeks pay. I do intend to make it a decent size tank, and multiple grow beds. I was thinking about a rectangular tank, but I'm unsure if the shape can withstand the hydrostatic pressures, and somehow fit insulation in there. I agree that a larger system will be more stable, and I do intend on "doing it right" setting it up for the first time, priming, etc..., it's just that I was hoping to avoid it due to $cost$.

 

[Onionsanddragons]

That is what has stopped me so far. I think it could be done really well using a couple of the large metal stock tanks from Tractor Supply, but last time I ran it I figured I would be spending like 8-1200 depending on scrounging luck, and I'd still be looking at having to fight our crummy winters for the first couple years.

That money just almost always seems better spent elsewhere for me, though I'm sure once I have a permanent greenhouse eventually, that I will be able to justify it. In our climate, I think doing it inside a greenhouse and using a rocket mass heater to keep things in production all year would be the ideal.

I do think there is still plenty of value trying it on the bit smaller scale, especially if you know you want to work up, as the experience and learning are likely worth it alone.

 

[Trav43]

Why not just use a couple of totes for the fish? And use some plastic barrels cut in half the long way for the beds?

 

[Darral27]

The e-book I got showed using plastic food grade 55 gallon barrels for the fish and the grow beds. My plan was to set up in my detached garage. I built a separate well insulated room with a squirrel cage fan in the ceiling for air flow. Never got around to testing to see how warm just my grow lights would keep the room over the winter. Other projects put this one on the back burner. From my estimates with the system I was planning I was thinking 250ish including the pump. Granted with a small system one mistake could take out all your plants and fish but the money lost on those would be minimal. IMO for learning and planning, just seeing if it's something you are capable of and enjoy, a small system is the way to go.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Why not just use a couple of totes for the fish? And use some plastic barrels cut in half the long way for the beds?

Take one 275 gallon cage for the aquarium, cut another cage off one bar up from the bottom to hold the growing bed, and then cut off the top from a clean (preferably unused) 330 gallon bottle such that the bottom sits in the 275 gallon cage for the fish tank and the top fits (upside-down) in the cut-off cage for a growing bed.

 

[Khazik]

I'd love to use the 275- 330gal totes, but cant find 'em, and I dont imagine 55 gal barrels are going to be a big enough stock tank; but for grow beds they'd work. Sick atm so dont feel llike typing much ;(

 

[Onionsanddragons]

Barrels are great for grow beds, but not really big enough to use for stock.

The problem with the IBC totes is twofold: the system will be small, and therefor much more vulnerable to any variance or fluctuation. It is REALLY easy to kill a small system, and they need a lot more babying even once established. The second issue you kind of touched on in your comment: because they are smaller they require a different style of heating, and are more vulnerable to fluctuation in temperature. If you have a very temp stable home for them, then accepting being a bit higher maintenance might be fine. I, personally, am just not comfortable dealing with both.

I agree with you that just for the learning experience, a small system is fine. And in a situation like you said with an insulated room in attached garage that would be a good place to start. If you can find a cheap and efficient way to heat the space, it should just be an issue of keeping the system stable. Wood heat of some sort would be ideal, especially if you can use a thermal mass to distribute extra heat over time.

 

[hoosierdoc]

So Khazik, how are things going? I recently went to Spencer and picked up 275gal IBC totes for $90. They were food grade and seemed very clean with no residue or smell.

I have been reading about aquaponics and am considering getting something started next year. I was thinking trout for our climate in central Indiana. I would not continue it over winter. I think getting the fish in late March would allow them to harvest in November and be a decent size.