Ammo can resiliance underwater?

[dieselrealtor]

I have done a little searching but can't find much.

Anyone know how deep & how long a 30 cal & 50 cal can can stay submerged without loosing seal?

I found one video that showed a 30 cal can under 5 feet for a couple of minutes but not much of an endurance test.

Probably covered here before but I couldn't find it.

Thanks.

 

[Leadeye]

I have done a little searching but can't find much.

Anyone know how deep & how long a 30 cal & 50 cal can can stay submerged without loosing seal?

I found one video that showed a 30 cal can under 5 feet for a couple of minutes but not much of an endurance test.

Probably covered here before but I couldn't find it.

Thanks.

I think deep would be a problem before long. Pressure on the long side of the can is going to bow it in making the seal along the long side less effective.

 

[dieselrealtor]

I think deep would be a problem before long. Pressure on the long side of the can is going to bow it in making the seal along the long side less effective.

I believe you are correct.
My best guess is that .30 cal cans will handle pressure better & the fuller the better, less air space will be less to compress.

My basement has an old cistern area that I was thinking about storing various things there long term, roughly 10' below grade.
Curious about the unlikely event of a fire, lots of water & heat. With it being as low as it is, the heat won't be much of a factor but could "potentially" be 10' under water worst case scenario.

 

[bwframe]

They are also mass produced. I'm sure you all have ran into various inconsistencies among them?

Some lids will readily pull off or get misaligned, while others you couldn't separate them if you wanted to.

 

[olhorseman]

I had probably 20 cans of ammo that I set 4' - 5' off the ground in preparation for hurricane Florence flooding but they still ended up under 1'-2' of water for a week. All of the cans had water in them.

 

[dieselrealtor]

I had probably 20 cans of ammo that I set 4' - 5' off the ground in preparation for hurricane Florence flooding but they still ended up under 1'-2' of water for a week. All of the cans had water in them.

That no doubt was a bad day

 

[Trigger Time]

Afew feet for a couple years no problem.
Good rubber seals. No damge. Genuine military metal ammo cans

 

[snorko]

My basement flooded a few years ago. Had a few .30 cal cans under about 2' of water for 7 hours or so. Dry as a bone inside. I posted a thread on that and the effects on various types of ammo.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

A couple of anecdotes:

An older friend had some that spent 3 days underwater in a flooded river cabin. After the floodwaters went down, some were dry inside and some had water in them. His cans were a mix of old surplus that he accumulated over the years - in other words, it just depends on the can and its seal. After removing about 30 rounds of 38 Special wadcutter ammo from their wet box and air drying, I took them home and tumbled them just to get the river silt off and we tried them out the next time we went shooting. All of them fired. That whole incident taught teenage me quite a bit.

The old Paragon Sales company (anybody remember them?) at one time had a mix of ammo in military cans that was supposedly recovered from a ship on the bottom of the Suez Canal. There was always the boxes and crates of "floor sweepings" and "battlefield recovery" ammo that they had, but this was different. Some of the stuff looked ok, and some was corroded, it just depended on the can. A friend got some of the 223 and ran it through a Mini-14. Some of it went off, but the ones that didn't he pulled apart and found wet powder.

 

[Leadeye]

Paragon Sales, there's a step back to the 80's. I used to deal with Dale Thomas on ammo and NFA.

 

[BluePig]

I think I would trust the metal ones better than the plastic ones you find at Big R or Harbor Freight.

 

[Trigger Time]

I think I would trust the metal ones better than the plastic ones you find at Big R or Harbor Freight.

Plastic is a no go under water. The pressure deforms it and.compromises the seal. Im talking the cheaper ammo cans like from the local stores. Obviously some are designed to be submerged but youre going to spend money on those

 

[nwihiker]

For those of you with more knowledge than me, how big of a concern would rust be? I have seen a fair share of USGI ammo cans with surface rust on them, and I would imagine that storing one underwater for a prolonged period of time could lead to the can rusting through even if the seal held under pressure.

 

[JeepHammer]

So, from first hand experience...

They dug out ammo cans from WWII on documentaries, some had been compromised, some only had surface corrosion (that looked suspiciously like fingerprints).
That's a 70+ year torture test of the ammo can...

Now, my personal storage procedure is NEVER HANDLE THE AMMO! Clean ammo off in Walnut or corn cob, no treatment/chemicals.
Wear gloves so you don't introduce corrosives from your hands.

Use non-acid processed cardboard (or anti-corrosion paper) to line the can.
Dissimilar metals in contact with each other will cause an electro-chemical process that will corrode both ammo & can.
The OD green paint on the can is quite corrosion resistant, but it won't stop the electro-chemical corrosion, this is the reason factory packed ammo has liners of some kind in the cans.

CHECK THE GASKET IN THE CAN LID!
Some will be damaged, some will be dry/cracked, etc.
GREASE THE GASKET, use silicone grease since petroleum grease will degrade natural rubber gasket over time.

I flood the can with inert gas, like argon or nitrogen, to remove moisture laden air and oxygen before I seal up the can.
Oxygen will attack the brass, copper, moisture will create a weak battery when cases/bullets come into contact with each other.
Again, galvanic corrosion will happen when moisture is present.

*IF* you know for a fact that the can will be under water, use an 'Air Lock' in the can.
Simply do the above, AND put a plastic or glass 'Brick' (hard glazed bricks work OK, but I use HDPE plastic blocks) in the top of the can, then seal up.
Store UP-SIDE-DOWN, so the contents are at the top of an 'Air Lock',
In the event the seal leaks, the water pressure will push in and push back out as atmospheric pressure changes while you contents stay above the water level.

Using wood or porous brick will 'Wick' water up your 'Brick' right into the contents. (Capillary movement)

Ideally, ZERO oxygen/moisture is perfect, but I don't know anyone that lives in a perfect world.

------------

If I absolutely knew it was going to get wet, as in stored under water, I would seal it up in Schedule 40 PVC pipes instead of ammo cans.
A cap on both ends for long term (SHTF) storage, a clean out plug with pipe thread sealer on one end if I were getting in and out for inspections or ammo use/replacement.
I would still remove oxygen/moisture for long term storage, but a good sloppy glop of pipe thread sealer is cheap & effective, and a clean out plug threads will last dozens, or even hundreds of cycles if you don't over torque (let the sealer do its job).

 

[JeepHammer]

For those of you with more knowledge than me, how big of a concern would rust be? I have seen a fair share of USGI ammo cans with surface rust on them, and I would imagine that storing one underwater for a prolonged period of time could lead to the can rusting through even if the seal held under pressure.

Tin-Core steel, it will surface rust, but rarely rusts through.

Rust on the INSIDE is more concern that outside.
This is active corrosion/oxidation, and putting brass/copper against rust is a REALLY bad idea.
This is a direct introduction of corrosion to your ammo.

If you get a chance to see factory packed ammo, it will have a cardboard looking liner in the can to separate ammo from can.
Always a good idea, Even better if it's a NON-acid/bleach cardboard.
Non-corrosion paper products are inexpensive and available, and plain old brown cardboard that's been around (unpacked) a while is better than nothing.
VOCs in the cardboard have time to vapor off the VOCs used in the manufacturer, so if it's been unpacked so it can 'Breathe' a while before you use it it's much better than no liner between ammo & can.

Most of the time you will have to pack ammo with cardboard anyway to keep it from rattling/sloshing around, and if you use cartons that's packing.
Stripper clips need packing to keep them organized and from banging around, so no issue there.

 

[JeepHammer]

In the Marines, we called ammo resupply 'Speed Balls'.
Keep in mind that other Marines packed out Speed Balls...

It was usually stripper clips stood on end in two rows out of bandoleers with cardboard in between rows.
750+ rounds in the bottom of the average 7.62 ammo can.
This left the top of a .30 ammo can open where loaded mags were waiting.
We taped speed loaders ('Spoons') in the lid off the can.

This saved a bunch of time trying to pry the speed loaders out of a bandoleer, and it kept us from having to pry the boxes out of the bandoleers to get the stripper clips in the speed loaders.

Nothing goes right in a gunfight, EVER, PERIOD.
And if you have to be resupplied it's even worse.
A 'Speed Ball' isn't long term storage, it's strictly an active combat thing, so loaded mags in the top and a dump can of stripper clips with instantly available speed loader 'Spoons' for reloading mags that weren't damaged or lost in s sustained gunfight...

Our speed balls usually had 'Red' cans (medical supplies), and blue cans (water) & green cans (Ammo, mags, grenades, etc.).
Usually just a red or blue stripe of spray paint around them, or sometimes nylon straps on the handles.

Just some ideas about what you *Can* do, and what the Marines did back when I was in...

 

[STEEL CORE]

Nothing is safe in plastic shopping bags................yesterday I discovered 400 rds of Federal mixed 9mm and .40 Aluminum cased ammo I had stored in a car I sold.
I had the ammo in wal mart bags, probably where I bought it and stuck them in the spare tire area of a 2004 Taurus.
Not a pretty sight when getting them out, nature had wet that area sometime in say ten years somehow and the soggy corroded mess was horrible to see.
In the trash for Tuesdays pick up.