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  1. #1
    Expert dieselrealtor's Avatar

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    Inverter, Transformer voltage & type questions.

    Hoping to kill 2 birds with one stone but want to do the best & most econonimical option.

    After looking at the options that come up for inverters & transformers, seems that everything I find 220v/240v is European market related.

    Looking to;


    • get a pure sine wave inverter for my 5th wheel, 3000/6000 or larger, for short electrical use (microwave, etc) items I don't want to start the generator for.
    • have an option at home to run my 220v/240v deep well pump with my generator in the event of an extended power outage



    My 5th wheel is 50 amp, from what I understand it is a 220v plug however doesn't actually run anything 220 just 2 110 legs.

    Is there a type of inverter that will do a 220v US voltage that will fit both needs?
    If I get a separate transformer for the well pump, what should I look for?


    thanks in advance
    Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

  2. #2
    Marksman 10-32's Avatar

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    What are you planning on using to power that inverter? With those specs, it's going to be pulling some serious DC amps. My 110v 1200 watt has 5 30amp fuses so that thing would pull at least double.

    This is one I was looking at a little while back. There's no pluging things into it, it's more meant to be hard wired.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CBAUZAM..._t3_B00JFQ5K2S
    Last edited by 10-32; 06-26-2019 at 19:15.
    ANY attack against the Constitution is an act of terrorism and should be dealt with accordingly.

  3. #3
    Expert dieselrealtor's Avatar

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    deep cycle battery bank, mainly for short usage of high wattage devices while travelling, don't really want to fire up the generator to make a cup of coffee, run the microwave etc. Will probably be used also for dry camping for tv, etc.
    Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

  4. #4
    Expert

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    For your inverter, look to the solar power folks, it wont be cheap.
    5000 watts at 12 volts is over 400 amps.
    5000 watts at 48 volts is over 100 amps.
    You are going to need a large battery bank to feed it.
    ( Arizona wind and solar )

    For the well, what kind of generator do you have?
    You mentioned a transformer, does your generator not have a 220VAC output?
    Any generator large enough to run a well pump should.

  5. #5
    Expert

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    Just to add....
    Both a coffee pot and a small microwave will run on a 1500 watt inverter.
    But,
    At 12 volts it's still over 100 amps.
    At 48 volts it's 30 amps.

    Outback Power make devices to do this, but they are not cheap.
    Inverter / Chargers - OutBack Power Inc

  6. #6
    Plinker

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    Diesel,
    US and Eurpoean electrical systems are completely different and it is tough to match them up. As you understand from your 5th wheel usage, US 220v systems use a pair of 110v legs with opposite phase and a central neutral. This allows you to connect the RV to a 220v source and still get 110v outlets. You can also get an adapter plug that allows you to connect to a 110v only outlet, and get 110v everywhere in the RV, but you likely just can't run everything at once then.

    This is different than european 220v which doesn't have the center neutral connector, just 1 hot leg and a neutral and ground (earth).

    I suspect it will be very difficult to find an inverter that provides both voltages AND runs off of the standard 12v battery banks in an RV. As 10-32 found, you can get inverters based around the solar/wind initiatives and 48v battery banks that would provide both 220 and 110v.

    Now, what you may be able to do, even with your current configuration. (and after re-reading your question, may be what you are wanting anyway)... If your RV already has a generator that has 220v, you could add a standard 110v inverter to the RV to power the microwave, etc., and then add a 220v outlet from the RV generator that you can connect to the well. You would need to start the generator when you wanted well water, but if you used that to fill the RV fresh water tank and then draw from that, you could run the generator for short durations. I'm not sure what you would do for battery recharging as most generators I've seen have low current 12v outputs that would take "forever" to recharge your battery bank.

    One caution, for the RV you can't simply put the inverter output in parallel with the generator. You will have to use some method to isolate the two sources so that they can't both provide power to the load at the same time. This can be a simple manual switch, but you must make sure it is mistake proof. If both are connected, even with one of the sources off, the likely result will be smoke and possibly fire.
    --Rick

  7. #7
    Marksman 10-32's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by schmart View Post
    One caution, for the RV you can't simply put the inverter output in parallel with the generator. You will have to use some method to isolate the two sources so that they can't both provide power to the load at the same time. This can be a simple manual switch, but you must make sure it is mistake proof. If both are connected, even with one of the sources off, the likely result will be smoke and possibly fire.
    --Rick
    https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-D...gateway&sr=8-3

    These are the transfer switches we use in our mobile x-ray clinics. They can be ran 110 or 220 (110 dual leg). If power drops below 105v, it cuts the power to you equipment in order to protect it. It also cuts power if it spikes over 130v. It has a hookup where you hard wire your generator and a 2nd hookup for an alternative power source.

    Edit: I forgot to mention they're automatic
    Last edited by 10-32; 06-29-2019 at 12:04.
    ANY attack against the Constitution is an act of terrorism and should be dealt with accordingly.

  8. #8
    Expert dieselrealtor's Avatar

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    My genny is a Honda Eu3000is, 110v.

    I have found some 110 to 220 transformers but from what I can tell I need a split phase & they are somwhat pricey for the sole purpose being to run a well pump in the event of an outage.
    Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

  9. #9
    Expert

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    OK, I'm officially confused...

    The RV has a 50 amp, 220 vac plug for shore power.
    That means a breaker box that's set up for 220 vac power,
    That's two 'Hot Legs' of 110 vac each, when combined (through two siamesed breakers) the two 110 vac feeds combine AT THE APPLIANCE for 220 vac.

    -----------

    DOES THE RV HAVE AN ON BOARD GENERATOR?

    If so, the generator MUST be 220 vac. It would be dangerous & illegal to have a single line 110 generator hooked to shore power 220 vac line.
    With a set of siamesed 220 vac breakers (two breakers that trip together) you have another 220 vac source for the well pump, the RV generator.

    -----------------

    Now, 90% of 220 vac output inverters (not made in China) are for renewable energy battery banks.
    Solar, wind, micro-hydro.

    RE systems use large battery banks, higher voltages so they can keep amperage down.

    Mine is 48 volt battery banks, and the inverter produces in 220 vac, two 110 vac 'Hot Legs' that combine AT THE APPLIANCE for 220 volts.
    This is identical to the way every home is wired in the US, whole house inverters are made to wire directly into existing breaker boxes and existing home wiring,
    The batteries/inverter simply replace the 'Grid' two 110 vac 'Hot Legs' coming into your home.

    I've installed dozens of inverters in homes, rvs, ect for PV/RE systems.

    The little automotive type 'Starting/Deep Cycle' batteries are neither proper starting batteries, or deep cycle batteries.
    You will need a MINIMUM of 4 each, series 31 size starting/deep cycle batteries if you want to run very much, for very long.

    A 1,000 watt microwave will need about 1,500 to start it. This is called 'Hard Start Surge', and although most guys will tell you microwaves don't have 'Hard Starts', they most certainly do.
    (Ask anyone that's ever tripped a home outlet circuit breaker turning the microwave on)

    The coffee maker is *supposed* to be limited to about 1,500 Watts.
    This is federal electrical code, the average wall outlet is only rated for about 1,500 Watts at 115 vac.

    -------------

    If you have a bunch of 'Deep Cycle' batteries now,
    What I would recommend is mounting the inverter close to the batteries,
    Plugging in an extension cord (or pull your own 12/2 with ground wire) from the coffee maker/microwave to the inverter.
    Simply attach a plug to the wire and plug it in.
    Move the coffee maker or microwave plugs (don't run both at once) into the extension cord you just ran.

    This keeps you from having to wire in a shop to shore power switch, or if you have a generator, ANOTHER ship to shore power switch.
    It's a bit of a pain to unplug the appliances and plug into the cord, but if you try to hardwire the smaller inverters, you MUST have a automatic power transfer switch,
    Without one the first time you start the generator, or plug into shore power you will back feed the inverter and things will get real expensive, and possibly very exciting... Like trying to find the fire extinguisher really quickly.

  10. #10
    Master avboiler11's Avatar

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    I have a 600w PV array powering my barn, which charges four Duracell 6V GC2 golf cart batteries in series for 215AH @ 24V, powering an AIMS 24V 2000w inverter charger. Battery and inverter cables are 2/0.

    No issues running anything on/in my travel trailer, to include microwave or coffee pot; Iíve even tested my 13.5k air conditioner with a hard start capacitor and itíll start and run but battery draw is far too high for any use but a test. This all with a 30A RV to 5-15 adapter plugged into a standard 110v outlet, wired with 12/2 Romex, to a load center with 20A breakers powered by the inverter.

    "'Gun guys' can find a way to get butthurt about just about anything."

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