EMP protection for Nat Gas Generator

[HoosierLife]

So we had a whole home natural gas generator installed this past spring.

It will be great if needed, but I’ve always thought what will do us in a nuke explosion in the atmosphere of the continental US.

I assume the EMP blast would rock Indiana pretty bad.

I’m thinking surrounding the generator, along with 75 ft trench of electrical and the box on the other side of the house with any EMP protection would be all but impossible.

Any thoughts?

 

[actaeon277]

Bad news.

There are several "effects" from an EMP.

One of them, is that the electrical grid acts like an "antenna".
So there is a surge on the electrical grid.
Your generator is connected to the electrical grid.
So, even if you surround it, that wire is going to be a short circuit to your generator.

 

[Jaybird1980]

It is also likely to disrupt the natural gas service.

 

[churchmouse]

Bad news.

There are several "effects" from an EMP.

One of them, is that the electrical grid acts like an "antenna".
So there is a surge on the electrical grid.
Your generator is connected to the electrical grid.
So, even if you surround it, that wire is going to be a short circuit to your generator.

In truth the genny is not actually hooked to the grid. If the transfer switch drops from loss of power the genny will start and is isolated from the grid. It is pretty much stand alone. If the grid comes back up the switch is engaged isolating the genny from the house wiring and back on the grid.

 

[churchmouse]

It is also likely to disrupt the natural gas service.

Yup. Which is exactly why I would not have a genny reliant on the infrastructure to run.

 

[actaeon277]

In truth the genny is not actually hooked to the grid. If the transfer switch drops from loss of power the genny will start and is isolated from the grid. It is pretty much stand alone. If the grid comes back up the switch is engaged isolating the genny from the house wiring and back on the grid.

Unless that transfer switch is a big assed air gap, that surge will cross it.

 

[churchmouse]

Unless that transfer switch is a big assed air gap, that surge will cross it.

That surge would likely fry the coil in the contactor and god knows what happens then. I see your point and I have seen this with a high voltage DC system but seriously, if he is on natural gas he is screwed any way if we have an EMP event of any magnitude.

 

[Jaybird1980]

That surge would likely fry the coil in the contactor and god knows what happens then. I see your point and I have seen this with a high voltage DC system but seriously, if he is on natural gas he is screwed any way if we have an EMP event of any magnitude.

Yeah a propane powered Genny that you have unplugged may survive, but the home infrastructure will likely be compromised

 

[Cameramonkey]

It is also likely to disrupt the natural gas service.

DING DING DING!!!!! WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!!


Never rely on a SHTF device that relies on any infrastructure to run. I had a guy tell me we needed to install a natural gas generator at one of our offices for a SHTF scenario like this. I reminded him politely that if the S really did HTF, A: We would have bigger fish to fry personally to care about a work item, and B: our fuel source would be cut off anyway so might as well not waste the $$.

 

[indyjohn]

It's nice to have the comforting feeling of on demand power for when the lights go out. That's for certain. But as our members have pointed out, let's not get ahead of ourselves with what our shiny new backup generator can do.

If the OP is really wanting to EMP harden the system, I think there is a couple things he could do.

1. The auto transfer startup is a nice convenience, but it is only that and does not have to be a necessary component of the system as a whole. To actaeon277's point, the connection needed for this feature is a weak point. So remove it and replace it with a simple manual start. Use a LiFePo battery on a trickle charge and you won't have to worry about it for 10 years.

2. Convert the genny to LP. Now, you're thinking "Oh, his HOA will never go for a 1,000 gal propane tank in his back yard". And you'd be right. So, he's going to bury the big tank in his back yard.

These two steps, though not inexpensive, will address the OP's concerns. For however long 800 gallons of LP will sustain his home.

My

 

[Cameramonkey]

It's nice to have the comforting feeling of on demand power for when the lights go out. That's for certain. But as our members have pointed out, let's not get ahead of ourselves with what our shiny new backup generator can do.

If the OP is really wanting to EMP harden the system, I think there is a couple things he could do.

1. The auto transfer startup is a nice convenience, but it is only that and does not have to be a necessary component of the system as a whole. To actaeon277's point, the connection needed for this feature is a weak point. So remove it and replace it with a simple manual start. Use a LiFePo battery on a trickle charge and you won't have to worry about it for 10 years.

2. Convert the genny to LP. Now, you're thinking "Oh, his HOA will never go for a 1,000 gal propane tank in his back yard". And you'd be right. So, he's going to bury the big tank in his back yard.

These two steps, though not inexpensive, will address the OP's concerns. For however long 800 gallons of LP will sustain his home.

My

I'm thinking in this SPECIFIC situation, Buy a Honda portable. Stick it in the minibarn inside a metal trash can with a tight fitting lid. That right there will go VERY far. Maybe even buying a DIY propane conversion. Because if you have to scrounge, getting propane from somebody's grill or an above ground tank might be easier than trying to pump petrol out of an in-ground storage tank 20' down. Because remember, the gas pumps will be dead too.


Oh, and most devices inside the home will be toast. so in John's scenario, the OP will have a great generator, but nothing to run on it. What is left functional will probably be supported by a portable. (insert debby downer gif)

 

[Jaybird1980]

It's nice to have the comforting feeling of on demand power for when the lights go out. That's for certain. But as our members have pointed out, let's not get ahead of ourselves with what our shiny new backup generator can do.

If the OP is really wanting to EMP harden the system, I think there is a couple things he could do.

1. The auto transfer startup is a nice convenience, but it is only that and does not have to be a necessary component of the system as a whole. To actaeon277's point, the connection needed for this feature is a weak point. So remove it and replace it with a simple manual start. Use a LiFePo battery on a trickle charge and you won't have to worry about it for 10 years.

2. Convert the genny to LP. Now, you're thinking "Oh, his HOA will never go for a 1,000 gal propane tank in his back yard". And you'd be right. So, he's going to bury the big tank in his back yard.

These two steps, though not inexpensive, will address the OP's concerns. For however long 800 gallons of LP will sustain his home.

My

This is assuming it is not hooked to the propane supply, and is insulated enough so that the ignition, and stator and windings survive.

 

[churchmouse]

This is assuming it is not hooked to the propane supply, and is insulated enough so that the ignition, and stator and windings survive.

If he is that close to the event there will be much much more (or less) to be concerned with. The infrastructure is the carrier/amplifier over a survivable distance.

 

[Jaybird1980]

If he is that close to the event there will be much much more (or less) to be concerned with. The infrastructure is the carrier/amplifier over a survivable distance.

Yeah I know, that's the unpredictable of it. You would have to prepare for the worst if you wanted a usable genny of that style. It would be very difficult.

 

[indyjohn]

I'm thinking in this SPECIFIC situation, Buy a Honda portable. Stick it in the minibarn inside a metal trash can with a tight fitting lid. That right there will go VERY far. Maybe even buying a DIY propane conversion. Because if you have to scrounge, getting propane from somebody's grill or an above ground tank might be easier than trying to pump petrol out of an in-ground storage tank 20' down. Because remember, the gas pumps will be dead too.


Oh, and most devices inside the home will be toast. so in John's scenario, the OP will have a great generator, but nothing to run on it. What is left functional will probably be supported by a portable. (insert debby downer gif)

That is a doable solution, I converted my genny from just petrol to dual fuel (LP) with a kit from a company that specializes in it.

True enough Cameramonkey, none of the electronics will work, but hey he'll have light!

 

[churchmouse]

That is a doable solution, I converted my genny from just petrol to dual fuel (LP) with a kit from a company that specializes in it.

True enough Cameramonkey, none of the electronics will work, but hey he'll have light!

And again.....if he is that close to the epicenter there will be no need for light.

 

[actaeon277]

And again.....if he is that close to the epicenter there will be no need for light.

EMP effects can cover a lot more area. Depends on the height of detonation, and the type of bomb.

 

[Cameramonkey]

True enough Cameramonkey, none of the electronics will work, but hey he'll have light!

Maybe. Maybe not. What about LED bulb drivers and diodes? Will those fry? Or should "we" have a stash of old school incandescent bulbs (or LEDs) stashed in metal trash cans too?

 

[Jaybird1980]

EMP effects can cover a lot more area. Depends on the height of detonation, and the type of bomb.

This is the problem, too much unpredictability.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Maybe. Maybe not. What about LED bulb drivers and diodes? Will those fry? Or should "we" have a stash of old school incandescent bulbs (or LEDs) stashed in metal trash cans too?

Incandescents will be most likely to survive. Lanterns and candles would be the best bet.