Join INGunOwners For Free
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    Grandmaster Kirk Freeman's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Old FBI Training Film

    In a blog that I usually read over lunch, there is an old FBI training film shot circa 1960 featuring the "FBI Crouch".

    I thought it would be of interest to INGO.

    We Owe Much to Jeff Cooper | Shall Not Be Questioned
    A Sigma and a SIGma male

  2. #2
    Plinker

    User Info Menu

    The FBI taught this well into the 70s. In fact, Bill Rogers was a very accomplished point shooter. It was only after his meeting Ken Hackathorn that he converted to the Modern Technique in 1977. Rogers got the FBI on board in 1980 and by 1983 he had transitioned fully to the modern isocelles platform that he is most known for.

  3. #3
    Marksman David Rose's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Paul you ruined the punch line.

  4. #4
    Expert Shay's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Gomez View Post
    The FBI taught this well into the 70s. In fact, Bill Rogers was a very accomplished point shooter. It was only after his meeting Ken Hackathorn that he converted to the Modern Technique in 1977. Rogers got the FBI on board in 1980 and by 1983 he had transitioned fully to the modern isosceles platform that he is most known for.
    Educational as always, Paul.
    Mindset Lab was founded to create and teach better strategies for self defense.
    All of our classes contain elements of Force on Force to allow students
    the opportunity to perform skills and tactics in context and under stress.

  5. #5
    Plinker

    User Info Menu

    Thanks, Shay.

    Point shooting is an interesting piece of our history that is often misunderstood, simplistically, as just Fairbairn/Sykes & Applegate. In fact, there is a well established record [of very similar methods] dating from the late 1890s [Woodhouse] through the 1920s [Tracy, Noel] prior to Fairbairn/Sykes 'Shooting To Live With The One Hand Gun' in 1942. Grant-Taylor was another Brit teaching this stuff but the only book documenting his take was the Close Quarters Battle Manual for the Palestine Police Force from '48.

    The FBI adopted point shooting following a visit, by the head dude at the FBI FTU, to Rex Applegate's MITC [Military Intelligence Training Command] and seeing what they were doing during the war.

    When he [Frank Baughman] retired, his protege, Hank Sloan, modified the WWII material into what you see in the training film from 1961. And that is where it stood until Bill Rogers [a former FBI agent who resigned to be able to sell his new holster design to his ex-employer] went back to the FBI FTU and showed them the Modern Technique.

    It is an interesting side note that the shooting problem that Hackathorn set up which became the tipping point for Rogers was a series of near targets [7M and in] and then a partial target [head shot] at 10M.

    Bill & Ken were neck and neck until the 10M head shot. Ken took the shot same as he had his previous one.

    Bill just stopped when he got to the hostage taker. After several seconds, he realizes he has to use the sights on the hostage taker, gets the gun into the eye-target line and shoots the hostage taker in the head. That moment was the end of point shooting for Bill Rogers. [As related by my friend, Claude Werner]
    Last edited by Paul Gomez; 02-21-2012 at 13:26. Reason: To include Hank Sloan's name...My OldTimers was kicking in.

  6. #6
    Certified Regular Guy esrice's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Shay View Post
    Educational as always, Paul.
    Shay you were right-- he's an encyclopedia.

    Thanks for the history Paul.

  7. #7
    Plinker

    User Info Menu

    LOL. Thanks.

  8. #8
    ATM
    ATM is offline
    will argue for sammiches. ATM's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Freeman View Post
    ...featuring the "FBI Crouch".
    I prefer the "CIA Hunker".


    www.reveresriders.org

    Say no to drugs. Say yes to bacon!

  9. #9
    Somewhat Purple-ish rhino's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Gomez View Post
    It is an interesting side note that the shooting problem that Hackathorn set up which became the tipping point for Rogers was a series of near targets [7M and in] and then a partial target [head shot] at 10M.

    Bill & Ken were neck and neck until the 10M head shot. Ken took the shot same as he had his previous one.

    Bill just stopped when he got to the hostage taker. After several seconds, he realizes he has to use the sights on the hostage taker, gets the gun into the eye-target line and shoots the hostage taker in the head. That moment was the end of point shooting for Bill Rogers. [As related by my friend, Claude Werner]
    That's the best part of the story for me.



    "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State."
    INDIANA CONSTITUTION
    Article 1 - Bill of Rights - Section 32

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    To prevail you must ACT!

  10. #10
    Grandmaster Kirk Freeman's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    I prefer the "CIA Hunker".
    Really? More of a "DIA Duck" man myself. It is also know as the McNamara Mash.
    A Sigma and a SIGma male

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •