Old FBI Training Film

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  • Paul Gomez

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    The FBI taught this well into the 70s. In fact, Bill Rogers was a very accomplished point shooter. It was only after his meeting Ken Hackathorn that he converted to the Modern Technique in 1977. Rogers got the FBI on board in 1980 and by 1983 he had transitioned fully to the modern isocelles platform that he is most known for.
     

    Shay

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    The FBI taught this well into the 70s. In fact, Bill Rogers was a very accomplished point shooter. It was only after his meeting Ken Hackathorn that he converted to the Modern Technique in 1977. Rogers got the FBI on board in 1980 and by 1983 he had transitioned fully to the modern isosceles platform that he is most known for.

    Educational as always, Paul.
     

    Paul Gomez

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    Thanks, Shay.

    Point shooting is an interesting piece of our history that is often misunderstood, simplistically, as just Fairbairn/Sykes & Applegate. In fact, there is a well established record [of very similar methods] dating from the late 1890s [Woodhouse] through the 1920s [Tracy, Noel] prior to Fairbairn/Sykes 'Shooting To Live With The One Hand Gun' in 1942. Grant-Taylor was another Brit teaching this stuff but the only book documenting his take was the Close Quarters Battle Manual for the Palestine Police Force from '48.

    The FBI adopted point shooting following a visit, by the head dude at the FBI FTU, to Rex Applegate's MITC [Military Intelligence Training Command] and seeing what they were doing during the war.

    When he [Frank Baughman] retired, his protege, Hank Sloan, modified the WWII material into what you see in the training film from 1961. And that is where it stood until Bill Rogers [a former FBI agent who resigned to be able to sell his new holster design to his ex-employer] went back to the FBI FTU and showed them the Modern Technique.

    It is an interesting side note that the shooting problem that Hackathorn set up which became the tipping point for Rogers was a series of near targets [7M and in] and then a partial target [head shot] at 10M.

    Bill & Ken were neck and neck until the 10M head shot. Ken took the shot same as he had his previous one.

    Bill just stopped when he got to the hostage taker. After several seconds, he realizes he has to use the sights on the hostage taker, gets the gun into the eye-target line and shoots the hostage taker in the head. That moment was the end of point shooting for Bill Rogers. [As related by my friend, Claude Werner]
     
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    rhino

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    It is an interesting side note that the shooting problem that Hackathorn set up which became the tipping point for Rogers was a series of near targets [7M and in] and then a partial target [head shot] at 10M.

    Bill & Ken were neck and neck until the 10M head shot. Ken took the shot same as he had his previous one.

    Bill just stopped when he got to the hostage taker. After several seconds, he realizes he has to use the sights on the hostage taker, gets the gun into the eye-target line and shoots the hostage taker in the head. That moment was the end of point shooting for Bill Rogers. [As related by my friend, Claude Werner]

    That's the best part of the story for me.
     

    glockednlocked

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    I love the old training films. Some of the stuff makes us laugh styles sure change but we cant forget some serious killing was done using those old time skills.
     

    brutalone

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    Apr 24, 2011
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    I remember watching an old family friend do this and bust 5 out of 6 corn cobs at 10 yards, in what had to be less than 3 seconds..... and he was pushing 70 years of age at the time....
    I still use part of this technique from the holster....
    No crouch or anything....
    but I do fire 2 rounds as I come to my combat stance...
    When drawing, I fire my first round as soon as my sights are in the lower part of my vision (more lower chest level than hip), second round is fired as I am extending my arm, and the third round is fired as I achieve sight picture.
    When I was putting in a lot of trigger time it produced:
    First round, from lower belly to sternum
    Second round, a solid 9 or 10 ring every time
    and the third round landing from chin to brow of silhouette....
    Not a double action revolver though.... Good ole 1911...
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Keeping it classy.

    Darn right!

    Did you see men wearing hats, hats that were not dirty baseball caps? Shoes that took a shine and creases in pants, white shirts, buzz haircuts (I'm getting excited) By gosh, by golly, now that was America before that . . . man, JFK, was elected.
     
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