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  1. #11
    Alright guys, truth time. That video isn't real energy. Lets give the knife attacker a brain, free will, full pressure, and no rules. I called a good buddy over last night to shoot this video. We didn't edit it and we didn't do multiple takes. We simply pushed record and shot the sequences. This is what real training looks like. It's sloppy, your grappling will look like crap, your cardio weaknesses will come through, your adrenaline will dump and you'll lose more often than you win. Matt Thornton from Straight Blast Gym has written the best article I've ever seen on using honest energy in training. If you haven't read the link below...please do yourself a favor, stop reading what I'm writing and go read what Matt has to say. He is focused on BJJ, but his theories work for all types of training.

    SBGi - Straight Blast Gym International

    Training shouldn't be about looking cool, showing off, or making yourself feel good. It should be about increasing your abilities, strengthening your weaknesses, and pressure testing either your current best practices or possible new ones. You can learn slowly and effectively with low energy and still be honest. You can go pretty hard to fully pressure test ideas without getting injured. You can still get solid training and get better even if you don't see yourself as the most mobile, strong, or assertive. I'll talk more in depth about the video on the video discussion page at our website. For now, I'll post the video here and see what questions people have. I can already think of two possible follow-ons. Do one with my gun in play accessed both incorrectly and correctly (as well as I'm able) and one with some MMA gloves and let me try and strike. Maybe we'll add those in the future.

    Edited to Add: For reference, I'm 6'0" and about 260. I workout three times a week, but am obviously overweight. Will is 5'6" and 175lbs of awesome (his words!). He works out regularly and it shows. His strength overcomes some of the size difference, but not all of it. My size limits my maximum cardio performance. I'm taking steps to rectify the situation, but its important we do things in our current condition rather than in our future/dream condition. Be honest about the issues and do the work.

    Last edited by jdhaines; 12-13-2013 at 09:09.
    http://www.PaladinCombatives.com/

  2. #12
    Certified Regular Guy esrice's Avatar
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    Josh that was too ugly and you were sucking too much wind for that to possibly be training.



    Nice to see some ugly truth interjected into the conversation. Thank you sir!

  3. #13
    Excellent video Josh! Thank you for taking the time to set it up and record it - it really helps us less experienced to see what things would likely really be like versus what most show.
    http://www.screen-shot.net/lullocats.png
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    "Clearly, you ARE like that. You DO do that. You DID do that. And that makes it EXACTLY who you are."
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    Yeah I totally wasn't paying attention when I hit it.

  4. #14
    Grandmaster The Bubba Effect's Avatar
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    Do any of you guys have any input about going to the ground to create space from a knife attack?

    I have not illusions that it's a panacea, but it seemed like an idea before I watched the vid and still seems like an idea.

    I didn't take the original vid as being training so much as an exploration of a technique, kind of experimenting to see what happened.


    Clear as Winter Ice

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by The Bubba Effect View Post
    Do any of you guys have any input about going to the ground to create space from a knife attack?

    I have not illusions that it's a panacea, but it seemed like an idea before I watched the vid and still seems like an idea.

    I didn't take the original vid as being training so much as an exploration of a technique, kind of experimenting to see what happened.
    It didn't work well for me. The space gained by going to the ground is very short lived. I'd much rather have the mobility of staying on my feet. On the first attack in my vid, I flat out slipped and ended up there. When the adrenaline comes in you tend to get clumsy. I wouldn't ever choose to go on the ground against someone with a weapon. I train grappling in case it happens...because it seems to happen a lot. Even against a highly skilled grappler the knife guy is likely to get a few cuts in. When we drill full on knife attacks using the RedZone system, I can usually escape without a cut about 10% of the time and that's staying on my feet. If it goes to the ground via tripping, slipping, falling, etc my percentage goes to 0% very quickly.
    http://www.PaladinCombatives.com/

  6. #16
    Grandmaster The Bubba Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdhaines View Post
    It didn't work well for me. The space gained by going to the ground is very short lived. I'd much rather have the mobility of staying on my feet. On the first attack in my vid, I flat out slipped and ended up there. When the adrenaline comes in you tend to get clumsy. I wouldn't ever choose to go on the ground against someone with a weapon. I train grappling in case it happens...because it seems to happen a lot. Even against a highly skilled grappler the knife guy is likely to get a few cuts in. When we drill full on knife attacks using the RedZone system, I can usually escape without a cut about 10% of the time and that's staying on my feet. If it goes to the ground via tripping, slipping, falling, etc my percentage goes to 0% very quickly.

    Thanks for the info! I can't watch vids at work, but will definitely check out your video when I get home from work.

    I don't know much of anything about self defense technique. I took just barely enough martial arts to learn how to fall down fairly well and while that's come in pretty handy, that is as far as I have gotten.


    Clear as Winter Ice

  7. #17
    Marksman YoungMilsurpGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdhaines View Post
    It didn't work well for me. The space gained by going to the ground is very short lived. I'd much rather have the mobility of staying on my feet. On the first attack in my vid, I flat out slipped and ended up there. When the adrenaline comes in you tend to get clumsy. I wouldn't ever choose to go on the ground against someone with a weapon. I train grappling in case it happens...because it seems to happen a lot. Even against a highly skilled grappler the knife guy is likely to get a few cuts in. When we drill full on knife attacks using the RedZone system, I can usually escape without a cut about 10% of the time and that's staying on my feet. If it goes to the ground via tripping, slipping, falling, etc my percentage goes to 0% very quickly.
    From what I remember, as long as you dont get hit on a major artery, a cut or slash is much much less lethal then a stab. And what if you have a knife on you as well? Like I would venture to say that among the guys on this forum, a majority, or at least large plurality would have spring assist folding knives on them

  8. #18
    Master Jackson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMilsurpGuy View Post
    From what I remember, as long as you dont get hit on a major artery, a cut or slash is much much less lethal then a stab. And what if you have a knife on you as well? Like I would venture to say that among the guys on this forum, a majority, or at least large plurality would have spring assist folding knives on them

    There is a big difference between surviving and avoiding incapacitation, significant reduction in fighting ability, or permenant damage. Cuts or stabs are both pretty undesireable. Just think of all the tendons in your hand, wrist, or forearm that would be damaged if you took a deep slashing defensive wound in those areas. Something like that might keep you from even being able to close your hand or grip adequately to grapple. Even if they aren't lethal, a significant slashing wound could have some significant ill effects.
    Last edited by Jackson; 12-13-2013 at 14:24.

  9. #19
    Master Jackson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdhaines View Post
    Alright guys, truth time. That video isn't real energy. Lets give the knife attacker a brain, free will, full pressure, and no rules. I called a good buddy over last night to shoot this video. We didn't edit it and we didn't do multiple takes. We simply pushed record and shot the sequences. This is what real training looks like. It's sloppy, your grappling will look like crap, your cardio weaknesses will come through, your adrenaline will dump and you'll lose more often than you win. Matt Thornton from Straight Blast Gym has written the best article I've ever seen on using honest energy in training. If you haven't read the link below...please do yourself a favor, stop reading what I'm writing and go read what Matt has to say. He is focused on BJJ, but his theories work for all types of training.

    SBGi - Straight Blast Gym International

    Training shouldn't be about looking cool, showing off, or making yourself feel good. It should be about increasing your abilities, strengthening your weaknesses, and pressure testing either your current best practices or possible new ones. You can learn slowly and effectively with low energy and still be honest. You can go pretty hard to fully pressure test ideas without getting injured. You can still get solid training and get better even if you don't see yourself as the most mobile, strong, or assertive. I'll talk more in depth about the video on the video discussion page at our website. For now, I'll post the video here and see what questions people have. I can already think of two possible follow-ons. Do one with my gun in play accessed both incorrectly and correctly (as well as I'm able) and one with some MMA gloves and let me try and strike. Maybe we'll add those in the future.

    Edited to Add: For reference, I'm 6'0" and about 260. I workout three times a week, but am obviously overweight. Will is 5'6" and 175lbs of awesome (his words!). He works out regularly and it shows. His strength overcomes some of the size difference, but not all of it. My size limits my maximum cardio performance. I'm taking steps to rectify the situation, but its important we do things in our current condition rather than in our future/dream condition. Be honest about the issues and do the work.
    You should have put this up in the "Knockout Game" thread. The speed, ferocity, and unpredictability of a live fighting situation seems to escape most of the posters in that thread. This was a good video, and a good examples of how sloppy and unpredictable these situations can be. Thanks for posting.

  10. #20
    Master cedartop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    There is a big difference between surviving and avoiding incapacitation, significant reduction in fighting ability, or permenant damage. Cuts or stabs are both pretty undesireable. Just think of all the tendons in your hand, wrist, or forearm that would be damaged if you took a deep slashing defensive wound in those areas. Something like that might keep you from even being able to close your hand or grip adequately to grapple. Even if they aren't lethal, a significant slashing wound could have some significant ill effects.
    Not only that but to piggyback on the post you are answering, it can be very difficult to access tools in this type of scrum. That spring assisted folding knife may or may not be of much help. You have to put in the work, against real resistance beforehand to find out. I know Jackson can speak to that.

    Michael Swisher

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