Kyle Defoor - How to choose who to train with, and how to train

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  • esrice

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    Mr. Defoor makes some solid points here-- especially about being honest with yourself and prioritizing training goals. As we begin 2014 now is the time to get honest and set some realistic training goals!

    [video=youtube;KT0fUZ8Z0c4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT0fUZ8Z0c4[/video]
     

    Coach

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    There are many solid points on that video. The training and techniques should be relevant. I also think that when considering who to train with a client should consider the ability to teach, and the ability of the instructor to demonstrate what they are teaching. The ability of the instructor to diagnose a clients problems and correct them.
     

    cedartop

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    .. The ability of the instructor to diagnose a clients problems and correct them.

    Tactical trainers are now a dime a dozen. A lot of them know their material very well and are even able to relay that information. One of the areas where a line is drawn is what Coach is talking about. Of course I always want to improve my own skills, but the reason I seek out the training I do nowadays is to become better at seeing other peoples problems. I would love to get to the point where I not just know the material well and am able to teach it well, but more so to the point of someone like, Tom Givens, Louis Awerbuck, Denny Reichard, Larry Muddgett or one of the other guys who are famous for being able to diagnose the errors of others and fix them.

    Number one take away from Kyle's video should be, being honest with yourself about what you need to learn.
     

    Coach

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    I also liked what he said about the guy who has won a gunfight and did nothing right but prevailed and is spreading poor technique. This was a good video segment. Everyone seeking training should watch it before spending a dollar.
     

    turnandshoot4

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    A fantastic question is raised. Do civilians really need to run around in full kit with their carbine? Is that a viable way to train? I do, but at the end of the day it isn't because I, "need to protect my family" rather, it is because I enjoy it. It is my money, I'll spend it how I see fit.

    A couple of months ago I had to ask myself the question, "Why do I train? (with a carbine)" In the end it was really because it is fun. If I really wanted to protect my family I'd be taking defensive driving courses, not shooting courses.
     

    Coach

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    A fantastic question is raised. Do civilians really need to run around in full kit with their carbine? Is that a viable way to train? I do, but at the end of the day it isn't because I, "need to protect my family" rather, it is because I enjoy it. It is my money, I'll spend it how I see fit.

    A couple of months ago I had to ask myself the question, "Why do I train? (with a carbine)" In the end it was really because it is fun. If I really wanted to protect my family I'd be taking defensive driving courses, not shooting courses.

    I was of the opinion that carbine or rifle was not really necessary for self defense. Then a few years ago we had a couple of thugs locally driving around and shoot at cops with AK-47's for a day. I went and got the kids from school and brought them home and then had time to think. The pistol on my hip was not a suitable match for a couple idiots with rifles. So it is rare that a rifle is needed, but it can and does happen. So I don't think it is a waste, but you are also right that it should be down the list some.
     

    Jackson

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    A fantastic question is raised. Do civilians really need to run around in full kit with their carbine? Is that a viable way to train? I do, but at the end of the day it isn't because I, "need to protect my family" rather, it is because I enjoy it. It is my money, I'll spend it how I see fit.

    A couple of months ago I had to ask myself the question, "Why do I train? (with a carbine)" In the end it was really because it is fun. If I really wanted to protect my family I'd be taking defensive driving courses, not shooting courses.

    I was of the opinion that carbine or rifle was not really necessary for self defense. Then a few years ago we had a couple of thugs locally driving around and shoot at cops with AK-47's for a day. I went and got the kids from school and brought them home and then had time to think. The pistol on my hip was not a suitable match for a couple idiots with rifles. So it is rare that a rifle is needed, but it can and does happen. So I don't think it is a waste, but you are also right that it should be down the list some.

    I think if you keep a rifle in your home for defense, you should train with it. I also think you should attend class and training sessions running the same or similar gear to what you would use if you were actually defending yourself with the rifle. For me, that's my standard EDC stuff and a magazine in my back pocket. Its not nearly as cool or efficient as a chest rig, but its realistic for me.

    The problem with putting in tons of time with a rifle is you neglect what you'll be more likely to have. As Coach said, there are times a rifle would certainly be the best thing to have. For me, it is pretty unlikely I'll actually have it with me if that comes up. If it isn't happening at my house, I probably wont be close enough to a rifle to bring it to bear on the situation. This is where being realistic and honest with yourself about your real needs is important. I cannot picture too many situations where I'd have the opportunity to put a chest rig and body armor on before I get in to the fight.
     

    rhino

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    I've never worn a chest rig in a class. My only changes from every day carry when I train with a rifle is that I will probably replace one of my pistols with a rifle mag or two on my belt, plus I add a dump pouch. The dump pouch is for carrying stuff to replenish what is on my belt (rifle and pistol mags and some loose ammo), not to use as a place to store partially used magazine specifically for that purpose. I have used a shoulder bag for spare mags, but that's also what I keep with the rifle for emergencies in case I need a reload.

    I'm not against getting geared-up to do a class. I think it's fine, unless maybe there is a lack of self-awareness and lack of clarity in terms of goals and expectations.
     

    DustyDawg48

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    Great video, thanks for posting. I am mostly self-trained and have picked up a lot from talking to several other individuals that have been successful and watching what they do. I want to take more classes but figuring out who is selling a good product and who is just having their students go through 'operator fantasy camp' is getting harder and harder. My goals this year outside of the realm of competition is to learn to use and operate long guns much better. I'm pretty confident in my CCW/Pistol handling but have limited experience with the rifle/AR. Shotgun I do ok with but know there is plenty of knowledge out there to be had.
     

    turnandshoot4

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    Who does everyone thing Kyle is talking about in the video? A trainer? Someone who barely got out alive from a self defense situation?
     

    DustyDawg48

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    Who does everyone thing Kyle is talking about in the video? A trainer? Someone who barely got out alive from a self defense situation?

    I guess it is career suicide to specifically name names in any industry...and most likely doubly so in the training business. Do you think he is specifically talking about an individual or an arch-type where somebody did something and then was able to sell their craft because their name is out there?

    Sadly the more I watch some of the YouTube videos the more I am scratching names off of my 'Must Train With' list. It seems everybody in the biz is only legit if they put on some sort of Ninja Show, have beards and at least 47 different tattoos on their body. It is like the Tae Kwon Do our youngest daughter took. Flashy, quick belt promotion and just a factory for putting out 7 and 8 year old 'black belts'.
     

    Coach

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    Who does everyone thing Kyle is talking about in the video? A trainer? Someone who barely got out alive from a self defense situation?

    When I watched it I took it to be a reference to a number of situations one reads of in the paper, or may run into from time to time. Someone suffered a home invasion or thwarted a mugging, or something and survived more from luck than skill and training, and is spreading bad advice and yet had the been there, done that card to play to give credence to what they say. I did not think it was directed at one specific example, but it could be.

    That is one thing I miss about the Jeff Cooper Commentaries. He would take out the names but give enough detail to fully illustrate his point.
     

    IamLegend

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    Well I'm 44, no military, no Leo. Family man looking to protect family, friends and strangers if the need were to arise. Ccw, medical, maybe some knife work. Also dealing with active shooter situation and in home defense would be up my alley. Long gun last on my agenda at this time. Also think getting started in some competition shoots would be awesome. But having a hard time figuring out the what/where/who to spend my hard earned money and get the most bang for my buck and within a reasonable distance from home (Southern Indiana). Looking into joining a local gun club and setting up something every other month or so for 2014.
     
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