AAR: Paladin Combatives Managing Confrontations 4-6-14

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  • esrice

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    Paladin Combatives LLC | Website for Paladin Combatives LLC Training Company





    What:
    Paladin Combatives Managing Confrontations


    When:
    Sunday, April 6th, 2014


    Where:
    Student's garage, Indianapolis, Eagle Creek area


    Who:
    Mike Swisher (cedartop) - Owner/Instructor
    Josh Haines (jdhaines) - Instructor


    INGOers:
    esrice, iChokePeople, Turf Doctor, indychad

    Why:
    My training background is heavy in live-fire firearms and scenario-based force on force. My weakest link right now is empty hand combatives. Thus, this course looked like a good gap-filler. It was also priced reasonably and the 1-day format fit well into my schedule.


    Paladin Combatives is a new company with some familiar faces. Owner Michael Swisher (cedartop) has been a long-time INGOer and is a former instructor for Suarez International. In class he described his departure from SI as amicable, but explained that he was eager to build a curriculum of his own in areas that he thought were important to personal defense. While Mike takes the lead on their live-fire offerings, he was content to assist Josh and play 'meat puppet' for this course.

    Josh Haines (jdhaines) is also a long-time INGOer, often participating here in the Tactics & Training subforum. Like many of us, Josh is a lifelong student of defense and has researched and studied heavily in the areas of empty-hand combatives. While he was quick to point out that he's not a professional, or even a competitor, Josh brought a unique perspective to defensive problems that are often overlooked in "big box" training. He offered an unbiased, no-BS look at the most common problems in today's violent society, as well as some solutions that can be implemented by anyone at any time, regardless of their level of prior training or skill.

    Managing Confrontations
    , according to the Paladin Combatives website, covers "the fundamental basics for interacting with another person during a fight". This also included those interactions leading up to the fight. Josh explained that the material presented wasn't all conceived by them, and that a great deal was based on the work of Craig Douglas (southnarc) in his Managing Unknown Contacts (MUC) course. Craig was kind enough to grant them permission to incorporate the concepts. If you're not already familiar with southnarc, I'd recommend looking him up ---> ShivWorks | Integrated Solutions for Personal Protection

    Before I cover a few specifics on the course, I want to cover what this course WAS NOT. This was NOT a "fighting system" course. It wasn't presented as "magic" techniques that would make a person immediately invincible. It wasn't a course in BJJ, wrestling, or martial arts. It wasn't designed to turn students into fighters.

    In my own words, this course was a "demo" course where several ideas and a few techniques were presented, and then participants were given an opportunity to try them out against live resistance. It was a "taste test" of sorts. For the principles and techniques to stick, motivated students must put in more time and work in the areas they want to improve. Whether this be practicing scenarios with a partner, or joining a BJJ gym, there is more work to be done if participants want to develop the fighting skills presented.

    Of the specific techniques presented, it should be noted that they were obviously chosen for being the best all-around techniques for the common person. By "common person" I mean those of us with limited time, money, and motivation, and those who have not dedicated themselves to a particular fighting style or system. We focused more on principles than techniques, and when techniques were demonstrated and tried, they were those that were simple, repeatable, robust, and maintained consistency across disciplines. It was more about self-protection and less about self-perfection.

    Class started right on schedule at 9am. We had a nice size group of 8 students. Ages ranged from 15 to 60+. We had 1 female student. Experience levels ranged from ZERO experience to those with several hundred hours of firearms and/or combatives training. I wondered if this would pose a problem for Mike and Josh, but the material and pace was flexible enough to allow for learning at all levels. Rather than a typical lunch break in the middle of the day, we all brought our lunches and some snacks that we ate over 3 shorter break times. This helped keep the energy levels up, and kept us from eating a big lunch just before the physical portions of the course.

    We kicked things off with instructor introductions. We were then given a container in which to place all of our guns, knives, flashlights, watches, and anything else that might be dangerous or uncomfortable during the physical exercises (it was quite a pile!). We then went around the room and each student had the opportunity to introduce themselves and share a brief training resume. Josh handed out a course outline and we jumped right in to the course material.

    We talked about criminal behavior and activity, discussing the principles of 'unequal initiative' and 'unequal armament'. We talked about the nature of criminal assault, ruses or games used to draw victims in, and what these behaviors often look like. Josh spoke about criminals using "carrots" or "sticks" to get what they want. This was a new take on "reason (carrot) and force (stick)" that I hadn't heard before. We discussed situational awareness at length, agreeing that complete avoidance was always the best tactic (though the reality of awareness is often much tougher than the internet would have us believe!).

    We talked about politeness and Josh crushed the myth that we have to be polite to EVERYONE. Err on the side of caution, as we can always make amends later. Josh talked about victim selection and ways to make ourselves less likely to be chosen. We don't need to be the biggest dude in the yard, but a few simple things can make a bad guy look for easier targets.

    Moving on to the meat of the material, we had a chance to role play some scenarios with partners. We covered 3 aspects of managing an unknown contact-- verbal, movement, and hands. Using the crawl/walk/run model we incorporated each aspect one at a time, slowly building until we could put them all together. Even after 7 or 8 times trying it, I still need to work on a more streamlined response. The goal is to be able to project a "pre-recorded" verbalization, arc of movement, and defensive posture-- all without having to use valuable thought processing power.

    After looking at some common pre-assault cues, we talked about preemptive measures we could take that weren't overly risky. One of those was an eye gouge. But it wasn't presented as the typical "stick your finger in his eyes" method. Instead it was demonstrated as a quick, sharp, half-slap, half-claw to the face with loose fingers. Tough to describe, but easy to demo and perform. Mike donned a facemask and let each one of us try it against him. We also covered a few default defensive postures that could be used to deflect an incoming blow if we failed to be preemptive.

    Next we moved on to more combative work. Josh briefly covered striking, but conceded that being a good striker takes a lot of training and work. We talked about fighting in "the clinch" and the "3 Ps" to consider. We were able to try several basic techniques against a partner, including a hand fighting drill. We looked at ground fighting and how important position is. We also talked about panic and how it can be detrimental to one's fighting will.

    2rpzneb.jpg


    In regards to panic, it's something I think people need to experience BEFORE they're in a real fight (like a lot of things). Like stress, you can innoculate yourself to it. But there's nothing like feeling yourself unable to breathe as someone's craming your face into the ground. You can actually feel the panic rise up inside.

    On the flip side, blacking out was a totally different experience for me. iChokePeople (aptly named, btw) is very experienced in BJJ. Because of his screen name, I asked for a posed picture with him choking me. He asked if I wanted the real deal. My answer was "surprise me". Well, he did. Within a matter of moments my goofy grin turned to mush. It happened so quickly I didn't quite realize it at the time. I remember feeling some pressure, then my vision darkening on the edges, then coming to and my legs instantly feeling like spaghetti. What struck me most was that I felt the exact opposite of panic. It felt very calming. I'm always interested in how my body reacts under various circumstances, and I was glad to have these 2 very different experiences.

    312iira.jpg


    We spent a short time talking about defense against weapons, and Josh gave a quick demonstration of the Red Zone knife defense system. This was a demo only, and Mike got the chance to go at Josh with a Nok training knife. Josh noted that, while effective, he found this system to be particularly perisible if not drilled regularly.

    29ktoi1.jpg


    The last portion of class was unique and unlike anything I've experienced in other courses. Josh spent some time giving thoughtful recommendations on resources for various "life improvement" opportunities. He shared his thoughts on various fighting systems, some fitness resources, and even an alternate jogging method. Josh then opened up the floor to discuss the "good, bad, and ugly" of trainers and training companies that we had all trained with before. This was not an open "bashing session", but rather the comparing and contrasting of training that we had been involved in. It was great to hear about other training companies directly from former students. It was refreshing to have a training company recommend other trainers and not feel like they were compromising their own business.

    We wrapped up class around 5:30pm and said our good-byes. I was a little tired and had a few bruises, but I felt great and was glad I spent the day training outside my comfort zone. I was able to identify some of my failure points and now know what I need to work on (consistent response to unknown contacts, strength, endurance, a set of useable clinch techniques).

    I would recommend Mike and Josh of Paladin Combatives to those looking to add some diversity to their training resume. They are a new company and Josh is still gaining valuable teaching experience so they aren't as polished as some trainers, but I actually found their "every man" approach refreshing. The fact that they asked for student feedback at the close of class and then took notes on the suggestions tells me that they won't fall into the dogmatic staleness that some companies do. And that means that their next class will probably be even better than this one.

    Many thanks to Turf Doctor and Denise for opening up their home to our group. Good hosting often goes unnoticed because things run so smoothly. Your efforts were certainly recognized and INGO is lucky to have willing folks like yourselves.

    If anyone has any questions about Paladin Combatives or this Managing Confrontations course I'll do my best to answer them. I'm sure Mike (cedartop) and Josh (jdhaines) will pipe up as well.

    :ingo:
     
    Last edited:

    cedartop

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    That was quick. Thanks Evan. There were at least a couple of INGO'ers in the Saturday version as well. There were a couple of well reasoned suggestions from students at the end of day 2, and Josh and I have already started working on implementing at least one of them. Things seemed to go pretty well. Hopefully we can get back to the area later in the year to accommodate those who couldn't make this class.

    Evan mentioned the different levels of experience of the students. While that can be a not so good thing in a gun class, I like the way that works out in a class like this. It helps us as instructors since we get to see a wider variety of issues, I think it helps the other students as it may bring a different perspective, and as you saw, for some parts of the class like the verbal, you can never have too much experience. I know fortunately my increased experience is making it a little harder for Josh to "get me" during the MUC portion.
     

    cosermann

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    Nice ARR Evan. My daughter and I were in Saturday's class. Recommended. Thanks to Mike and Josh for a good class.
     

    indychad

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    I typically do not write AAR's. For some reason I feel compelled to do so on this class. Evan has a very accurate ARR so I'm going with the KISS method. The subject matter was spot on and solid. Everyone should have some hand to hand combative skill set, if you CC or not. This mindset and skill can not be taken, malfunction or run out of projectiles, you do have to clean it once in awhile. This weapon, you, can go anywhere. Across state lines or buildings that prohibit lawful carry. Josh did a very good job of teaching the subject. He didn't present it, he knows the subject and you can tell that he enjoys instructing. I have been to other training facilities taking hand to hand, knife and other class's. This is a well rounded class with solid information that anyone who is serious about personal protection needs to know. Thanks to everyone who put the class on, good people and a good class.
     

    RobbyMaQ

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    Most excellent.
    On a side note, the last person on earth I would want a serious choke-out from, would be ichokepeople! Yet Ironically, if I HAD to trust someone with choking me out, he would be my first choice!
     

    iChokePeople

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    Those photos are clearly 'shopped. I do not recall choking anyone and do not condone that kind of behavior.

    I've been on this soapbox before, but that won't stop me. This kind of training should be on EVERYONE's short list. Gun person? You still need this. Not a gun person? You need it, too. Your kids and SOs? Yep, them. This is the kind of thing that most of us will actually use, maybe many times. This is the kind of training that decreases the odds that you'll be a victim, the kind that shows you how to recognize and avoid bad situations in which you might otherwise either be a victim or have to deal with the consequences of having had to use your gun to defend yourself.

    Josh and Mike did a great job of putting together a block of material that works. Josh's analytical, no-BS, test it and see if it works personality is perfect for this. No dogma, no avoidance of off-limits topics. I like that. I also admired the lack of ego, or the ability to check it at the door. This was the first time I met josh, so I'm not really sure which it was, but he was not hiding behind the ego shield in class like some do.

    This training was worth much more than the very reasonable fee these guys are charging. Don't let the fact that they're not charging "I'm a famous YouTube personality" prices dissuade you -- this is excellent stuff.

    Thank you to Josh and Mike, to our hosts for opening their home to us, to Evan for his always excellent AARs, and to all of the other students who bring a variety of backgrounds, ideas, and value to training. It was a pleasure to spend the day with all of you and learn together.

    Get this kind of training. Really. If it's not THIS class, take one like it. Yes, even you, the ones saying you don't need it because you carry a gun.
     

    rhino

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    Nice ARR Evan. My daughter and I were in Saturday's class. Recommended. Thanks to Mike and Josh for a good class.


    Were Deadly Thumbs involved?

    N's thumbs vs. ichokepeople's ichokepeople-ness would be quite a battle.

    ​rhino out!
     

    jdhaines

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    First of all, I'd just like to thank everyone who attended the class. I (we) really appreciate you all spending your time and money with us. Thanks to Evan for putting up another great AAR of the coursework. Mike and I have worked hard to make sure the content of this class is up-to-date, effective, and a true representation of the current "best practices" in the areas we touched upon.

    We tried to get across what a fight may look like and what skill sets someone should have if they want to prevail. We touched on both how to achieve mastery in each section (ex: black belt in BJJ, or boxing gym for 5+ years) as well as what a normal person with time and money constraints could do to achieve some proficiency in each section (ex: training group, dvds, lots of drilling, etc). Most people can find their own sweet spot on that spectrum to be better than they were before without sacrificing more than they are willing to.

    I had a great time and appreciate all the positive thoughts and comments from everyone. I certainly got some good feedback on how to improve on my ability to convey this information, and I will try to make the next class even better. I feel like everyone had a good time tipping over some of the long held sacred cow beliefs that get tossed around the internet & forums. One of my biggest goals was to install a very robust BS meter on everyone who attended. I would say watch out to anyone trying to sell snake oil in the future. I can't wait to meet up with some of you all again as you start doing the work on developing and obtaining these skill sets. It can be a pretty radical change in relatively short order.
     

    Turf Doctor

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    Well there is no need to expand on the nice ARR by Evan. Well said and precise.

    Thanks to Josh & Mike for making the long haul to teach the class. I would strongly recommend this class. This is skill you can take with you anywhere anytime unlike a gun of knife.

    As said before, we had people with no training to a high level of training. A no BS and no ego's made it a great class for the first time people as well as the ones with some training, everyone was willing to learn.

    Turf Doctor
     

    cedartop

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    .​
    Why:
    My training background is heavy in live-fire firearms and scenario-based force on force. My weakest link right now is empty hand combatives. Thus, this course looked like a good gap-filler. It was also priced reasonably and the 1-day format fit well into my schedule.


    .

    :ingo:
    Interactive Vehicle Tactics | Paladin Combatives LLC
    You know Evan, a large part of our vehicle class is dedicated to that. Just sayin.
     

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