PM from a student

[Shay]

Why do I teach?

Hey Shay, I hope you are well my friend.

I wanted to tell you that I got a gun shoved in my face a couple weeks ago by two dudes. I was carrying. I did not draw. I did not disarm them ala Krav Maga even though the gun was held in one hand and pressed against my head.


It went down in 10 seconds. Its amazing how much data you process in that time, to run a solution and change the outcome, if you can. AMAZING. And the training, tactical response, YOURS, Gomez, ECQC and Craig as well as my weekly empty hand sessions, all came into play and I went home alive and they went home empty handed.


Anyway, if you ever want a full debrief of how it went down, I'd be happy to share, because training totally paid off, and you should know that. Some of the things you taught me, saved my life.

The focus of Mindset Lab is not just making you a better shooter; it's about improving your ability to make critical decisions. Decision making under stress is a learned and perishable skill.

Have you ever considered the difference between the legal justification for being able to shoot and the tactical decision to do so?
Do you ever practice NOT shooting?

 

[Roadie]

Right on! Would love to hear the "Rest of the Story"

 

[SSGSAD]

Right on! Would love to hear the "Rest of the Story"

YES, so would I .....

 

[Roland of Gilead]

I would like to read the full debrief.

I have considered legal vs tactical, and moral shoot, don't shoot scenario's.

Never practiced not shooting, maybe you can teach me sometime. Are your classes held at the Oliver St. location?

 

[Ruffnek]

Right on! Would love to hear the "Rest of the Story"

YES, so would I .....

Ditto

 

[nakinate]

 

[Cameramonkey]

Amazing. Glad you got your "Golden apple" teach... I'm sure comments like these are worth more than all of the fees we have paid for your classes.

Keep up the good work!

 

[churchmouse]

I to would like to hear this but understand some things are better left FTF so as not to be nit-pic'd to death on the interwebs.

 

[drillsgt]

I'm confused, he's saying he basically did nothing but it turned out okay?

 

[OneBadV8]

I'm confused, he's saying he basically did nothing but it turned out okay?

He didn't draw, but he went home alive. Sounds like he processed a lot of info in a very short time to figure out options, make the best situational decision, and go home alive.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I'm confused, he's saying he basically did nothing but it turned out okay?

Also notice he stated that thug got nothing. Thats a key point. A failure would have been a loss of valuables, loss of weapon, or getting shot without taking the perp down too. Someone without some Mindset Labs training would have likely ended up with #1 or #3. Anytime you can walk away from one of those encounters shaken but 100% intact, its a win; drawing a weapon is not always the winning answer.

 

[The Professor]

I, too, would love to hear the details.

The Professor

 

[GIJEW]

I'm confused, he's saying he basically did nothing but it turned out okay?

He said they went away empty handed--maybe without their pistol? That was a 'thank you' note, not an AAR

 

[Shay]

Two things that I teach:

1. You must decide if what you are going to do is actually going to make the situation better. Shooting someone may not solve your problem and it is likely to not solve your problem instantly. Drawing on a drawn gun is an action of last resort.

2. Your goal isn't to shoot someone; it's to not get shot. If you are not getting shot right now, keep not getting shot. Don't do something that makes it likely that you are going to start getting shot.

I think this student did a great job of using compliance as a tactic. He had many options (use his pistol, combatives, disarm attempt, run/escape, comply) or some combination of these options. Other options might have also had positive outcomes, but I know this one did because the student is not dead or injured.

 

[lovemywoods]

Congrats Shay!

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Two things that I teach:

1. You must decide if what you are going to do is actually going to make the situation better. Shooting someone may not solve your problem and it is likely to not solve your problem instantly. Drawing on a drawn gun is an action of last resort.

2. Your goal isn't to shoot someone; it's to not get shot. If you are not getting shot right now, keep not getting shot. Don't do something that makes it likely that you are going to start getting shot.

I think this student did a great job of using compliance as a tactic. He had many options (use his pistol, combatives, disarm attempt, run/escape, comply) or some combination of these options. Other options might have also had positive outcomes, but I know this one did because the student is not dead or injured.

In the macho, testosterone fueled world of training ^^^^ this ^^^^ is FAR too rarely taught. Good for you, sir.

 

[WETSU]

Hi All,

I can give you the "rest of the story".

It was me, WETSU. I had a gun pressed against my head while another dude frisked me. It all went down in 10 seconds.

Some people think I'm some sort of badass. Well, I am. When the time to be a badass presents itself. But, I am, as some of you know, also a survivor. And, if I may say. I am smart.

Here's what happened. I was out for a 2 mile walk, in my neighborhood. It was a walk I've taken a hundred times. Older, upper middle class neighborhood. That night, I already passed a couple people. Other people out walking. It happens nearly every time I'm out walking. Year round. People walking dogs. Teens returning from practice, that sort of thing.

That night I spotted 2 people coming towards me. At 50 feet (it was a corner). They were two different sizes, big and small, both in bulky clothing because it was cold. The street light was to their backs. So, I assumed, based on the size differential, it was a couple, a man and woman. So I looked for a dog. How wide did I need to swing to give Muffin room to sniff me. As we got closer, 10 feet I could see it was 2 teenagers. No big deal. I already passed 2 teen 10 minutes earlier.
As we passed shoulder to shoulder the gun came out. The dude just sprung. Semiauto pressed to my temple. The smaller dude got to my 5 in half a second. "Gimme your schietza!" was basically the command. So, I had a gun to my head, and another man, who I could not see well, frisking me. I could not tell if he had a gun or not. The dude with the roscoe was agitated and jumpy. The first second of my reaction was like a "fade" where you let an opponent grab your collar etc and fade back, to access, to suck him in. I threw my hands up in a fence and told them I didn't have *****. I did not like that dude with the gun on me, I was thinking 3.5# trigger and all he needs to do is put down 3.6# and its all over. I cussed at them. I told then to calm the F down. And I reached up and touched the dudes HiPoint and told him to get his F'n gun off my head because he's making me nervous. He did. He aimed it at my junk. And right then I knew I made the right decision. He was not going to shoot me. But had I tried to execute an disarm, it could have made him have an ND. Ive seen NDs at the range. Into peoples cars. In a workshop. Its embarrassing. An ND into my head would have changed all of our lives. I have disarmed dudes with a bluegun held to my head a hundred times. Its textbook. A gift. I had not done so in 6 months. No way was I gonna push my luck, especially with the second dude an unknown. I had tried to repostion myself to stack them up, it was part of my IA, and it worked to an extent. Things were not going their way. I moved his gun. I didn't have anything they wanted. I was cussing back at them like they were misbehaving children. I was moving and stacking them. Then the frisker hit the weight vest I was wearing. He froze. His eyes got big. He looed at his partner and just bolted. Half a second later so did the gunman.

The detective that took my report. (super cool guy, seasoned) said he probably thought I was a cop and that they just made a huge mistake. Anyway, they ran off. They ended up with NOTHING.

There is nothing I would do differently. In a different situation. Yes. perhaps. Each one is different. I am no stranger to violence. I have been in very bad situations that I had to fight my way out of. Sometimes in 3rd world countries. I've been stabbed at, shot at, strong armed, ganged up on, thrown through plate glass windows and doors, etc etc. I know what it looks like. What it feels like. I train EVERY WEEK in jitz, striking, grappling, and the range. This is no BS for me. I am in incredible shape. I trust my body and reflexes 100%.

That's not what this is about. Paul Howe said it best when he said you can have a Delta guy who we've spent a million dollars on , get greased by a 14 year old with an AK in some sheethole. It just happens.

You need to know when to fight. When to draw. In fight weapons access is a thinking man's game. So are disarms. Doing that once every 3 years in a weekend self defense class is not going to get it done. I work this stuff constantly. And this was the COA I took for THIS encounter. Period.

Internet commandos can second guess, or armchair quarterback all they want. I am fine with that.

For those of you who have serious questions, I will do the best I can to answer.

I want all of us to learn from REAL life experience.

That's why I go to people like Shay and Mindset Labs, Southnarc to train. I also teach classes, but being a student keeps me humble and learning. Just like life.

 

[Markus]

I have experienced a gun pointed at me on two robbery occasions. The first was at a Taco Bell in the late 70s and the second was a jewelry store robbery in the early 80s. Scared the crap outa me both times. Taco Bell robbery was over in what seemed like seconds and the jewelry store one seemed an eternity. During the latter, all I wanted to do was take a big dump in my drawers. Only thing that stopped me was the thought "If I survive and crap my pants, I am gonna be really embarrassed". Thank goodness for that thought! Glad all worked out for you WETSU!

 

[WETSU]

Super weird factoid?

I had ZERO adrenaline dump. Zero fear. It was all very transactional. And much of it seemed like a training evo. None. That's one of the most curious, and almost disturbing things that has come from this, for me. I have had people tell me it will hit later.

 

[Cameramonkey]

OK, I'll bite. I'll keyboard quarterback. Here goes:




Good job sir!

You ended the situation with your life, they walked (OK, RAN) away with nothing, and nothing happened that would have caused you undue stress such as waiting to see if a jackwagon prosecutor or family member to charge you/sue you because you had the audacity to shoot poor little dindu nuttin and his pal for walking to bible study.

I honestly cant think of a better outcome short of you able to get them in the back of a squad car. But then again, given our legal system, they'd be out again before you took your next walk.

Glad it worked out for you. Here is hoping we all have that luck and peace of mind to come out in one piece without a scratch.