Building Clearing-Tactical Response

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  • Never A Victim

    Marksman
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    12   0   0
    Sep 25, 2012
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    Hamilton County
    Building Clearing-Tactical Response 4/22/2017-4/23/2017

    Below is my review for Building Clearing taught by Tactical Response in Camden, TN. Gear used for this course was my normal EDC with the addition of a Glock 17T. The flashlight I used was a Streamlight ProTac 1L. Jay Gibson and Tim Morris were the instructors for this course.

    Building Clearing is a relatively new course from Tactical Response. It was created to bridge the gap between several previous courses, most notably The Fight! At Night and Active Shooter. There was also a lecture over how to prepare for a home invasion and of course, like every Tactical Response course, there was a medical component.

    This course started off with the explanation of two types of room entries used: dynamic and deliberate. A brief lecture ensued about how to safely, but efficiently, enter a room, but in typical Tactical Response fashion, there were no high-speed tactics or fancy “operator” words used to describe what is essentially a very primal act.

    After a few hours of lecture, we went to the shoot house with Tim Morris to work on some basic techniques on how to maneuver around pieces of cover. While I have had some basic training in this topic, it was refreshing to be able to go back and practice a skill so basic that it often gets overlooked. All of these skills were taught and drilled in lit and low light conditions. I quickly realized that this course could have been called “Low Light Building Clearing” and that would have been an accurate description as well. The amount of low light training in this course was staggering—and it’s exactly what I needed. Even after the scenarios were over, the instructors encouraged the students to go through additional scenarios if they wanted more practice.

    Identifying targets was also taught extensively during the course and also drilled in the scenarios. This is where having a good quality flashlight is important. A great importance was also placed on movement. Like other Tactical Response courses, students are often told to move more—and that you will never be criticized for “moving too much.” Movement is free. Magpul is going to come out with a “Movement 2.0” product next year at Shot Show-so take advantage of it and move your ****ing feet.

    This course was great experience. I learned just how important it is to be able to reload and keep your pistol running with one hand. I learned that no matter how “high speed” you are, entering a room with a bad guy on the other side has severe risks—but moving your feet will keep you out of a lot of trouble. I learned just how deficient my police department training on this topic has been over the years. I learned a lot, and I would highly recommend this course.
     

    Tactically Fat

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    Oct 8, 2014
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    I learned just how deficient my police department training on this topic has been over the years. I learned a lot, and I would highly recommend this course.

    In your opinion - do you think there are "every day Joe" skills taught in this class or is it more for LEO?

    Because for me, as an every day Joe, I just can't foresee clearing my house (If I came home to notice a wide-open door / broken window)
     

    lonehoosier

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    28   0   0
    May 3, 2011
    8,012
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    NWI
    In your opinion - do you think there are "every day Joe" skills taught in this class or is it more for LEO?

    Because for me, as an every day Joe, I just can't foresee clearing my house (If I came home to notice a wide-open door / broken window)
    You say that now. What if you come home from work at 2am and the back door is wide open and you know that your family is sopposed to be sleeping inside. Do you call the cops and wait or do you go in?
     

    JollyMon

    Shooter
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    Sep 27, 2012
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    Westfield, IN
    In your opinion - do you think there are "every day Joe" skills taught in this class or is it more for LEO?

    Because for me, as an every day Joe, I just can't foresee clearing my house (If I came home to notice a wide-open door / broken window)

    Gun fights are a game of angles (so I have been told, never been in a real one). The room clearing course I took, different than this one (1-2 man room clearing at Telluric Group in GA, force on force), really illustrated that point. The most I got from my room clearing course was how to expose the least amount while moving before an adversary could see you. And that skill can be used anywhere, not just in the house...... around cars, building corners, alleys, trees, etc etc etc

    Did we learn some strong wall and opposing corners technique, yes, but It was limited as that doesnt matter much when there is only one of you.
     
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    hog slayer

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    Dec 10, 2015
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    Camp Lejeune, NC
    You say that now. What if you come home from work at 2am and the back door is wide open and you know that your family is sopposed to be sleeping inside. Do you call the cops and wait or do you go in?

    I completely understand. I cannot emphasize enough that I still look at my role as to seek, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver. Obijohn has ensured that every time we have an encounter that he comments on this mentality and how it plays out as a veteran. The likelihood of you getting shot while attempting to clear your own house is incredibly risky. I wouldn't say that a guy couldn't be forced to clear his house if it was absolutely needed. I would say that it wouldn't be wise in almost any case to undertake such a large task alone. You my think that if you were to arrive at your house in such a manner as described that you'd automatically begin clearing it. I just cannot envision this as reality. You may really want to. But, I would think that as a conscientious provider of safety and security to your respective blast radius on a daily basis, that your focus would instantly change once the real and immediate dangers became apparent. It's at that point that calling the police is a very smart move. Tell them to send more than one or you'll be going in with the lone officer.

    Just remember, and I mean this in no disrespect, Rambo isn't a real life dude.

    I didn't even cover body armor. Ah well, maybe later.
     
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    Kutnupe14

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    Jan 13, 2011
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    In your opinion - do you think there are "every day Joe" skills taught in this class or is it more for LEO?

    Because for me, as an every day Joe, I just can't foresee clearing my house (If I came home to notice a wide-open door / broken window)

    Bingo
     

    Kutnupe14

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    You say that now. What if you come home from work at 2am and the back door is wide open and you know that your family is sopposed to be sleeping inside. Do you call the cops and wait or do you go in?

    You go in.... turning on lights in every room as you seek out your family. I certainly wouldn't my home in the LE way, because a door was left open, or a window broken. I'd need something a bit more compelling to go all tactical. And truth be told, if it WAS family, and I was that worried, it's doubtful anyone would have the patience to properly clear a home. You know your family should be upstairs, and might be in trouble... do you honestly think you're going to clear the whole bottom floor first, rather than making a beeline to where you think there are? Human Nature trumps tactics.... unless you've done it a few hundred times.
     

    rhino

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    Mar 18, 2008
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    Clearing a structure alone is a bad idea for anyone, regardless of their level of experience, training, or ability. It may be necessary, but it's still a bad a idea.

    Two people who work well together can do an okay job in most cases. Three is a lot better.

    Then when you get to stairs, there's no really good way to do it (regardless of the number of people) without the kind of tools that military and some police have.

    Along the same lines, having this knowledge is a good thing. If you're in your home, knowing how someone has to move and some will move can help you make plans, especially in picking the best place for our ambush. Top of the stairs, a couple of meters back, proned-out is often a good choice.
     

    JollyMon

    Shooter
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    Sep 27, 2012
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    Westfield, IN
    If the door is kicked open and I am hearing screaming..... The main reason I would go in is so I wouldnt want to listen to my wife complain that I "should've" done something more/quicker for the rest of my life instead of the 5 minute wait while the police arrive ....
     

    rhino

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    If the door is kicked open and I am hearing screaming..... The main reason I would go in is so I wouldnt want to listen to my wife complain that I "should've" done something more/quicker for the rest of my life instead of the 5 minute wait while the police arrive ....

    That falls under the category of "necessary" at the very least!
     

    hog slayer

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    Dec 10, 2015
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    Camp Lejeune, NC
    If the door is kicked open and I am hearing screaming..... The main reason I would go in is so I wouldnt want to listen to my wife complain that I "should've" done something more/quicker for the rest of my life instead of the 5 minute wait while the police arrive ....


    That's hilarious and true.
     

    obijohn

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    Hogslayer and I have had this conversation. Solo house clearing is a bad idea. Period. If you arrive home and hear screaming, that's not quite the same, is it? Sure, I'll go in, but I'm counting on the distraction that the screaming is providing to help me out. Will I clear a quiet house? Likely not, I'll dial 911. If I must, I would like to have a trained team, level 4 armor, bunker shields, flash bangs etc. Even then, a dynamic entry is not a sure thing.

    Would I take a class such as the one the OP attended? Sure, I have. And will again. As an intellectual exercise. The issue I have with individuals that do not need the training to get it, is it can, and does, instill a false sense of "sure, I can do that..." YMMV

    I love the thought of taking the training just to train, just keep in mind that even well trained, overly rehearsed, entry teams take casualties performing dynamic entries.
     

    szorn

    Marksman
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    1   0   0
    Jul 5, 2012
    167
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    Northcentral Indiana
    Because for me, as an every day Joe, I just can't foresee clearing my house (If I came home to notice a wide-open door / broken window)

    That’s always been my response as well.

    There are many LEO and military trainers out there making a killing on courses of this nature by directing them at civilians but the reality is that it’s more of a novelty experience than practical training. Statistically-speaking while it’s possible that a civilian may have to clear his home, the probability is low. If there is serious concern that one may have to protect loved ones in such a rare situation, maybe that should be an important reminder to invest that time, money and energy into ensuring that those loved ones are properly trained for those worst-case scenarios so they don’t have to rely on someone else to come to their rescue when seconds matter…
     

    KellyinAvon

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    Dec 22, 2012
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    Just to review: Nobody home? Wait for the cavalry. Family in danger? Do what you must.
     

    rhino

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    It's not always about entry, either. The closest thing I've done in training to being a realistic need for building clearing skills were scenarios where you had to get out of somewhere.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    That’s always been my response as well.

    There are many LEO and military trainers out there making a killing on courses of this nature by directing them at civilians but the reality is that it’s more of a novelty experience than practical training. Statistically-speaking while it’s possible that a civilian may have to clear his home, the probability is low. If there is serious concern that one may have to protect loved ones in such a rare situation, maybe that should be an important reminder to invest that time, money and energy into ensuring that those loved ones are properly trained for those worst-case scenarios so they don’t have to rely on someone else to come to their rescue when seconds matter…

    But it's fun. Let's not take away from that. Most of us will never actually need an AR, but we love the idea of having one, regardless. Why not take classes/courses on every aspect on use of a weapon?
     

    JollyMon

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    But it's fun. Let's not take away from that. Most of us will never actually need an AR, but we love the idea of having one, regardless. Why not take classes/courses on every aspect on use of a weapon?

    Some of us do.... but then we are just called tacticool mall ninja by people on the internet because we like taking more and more advanced level courses instead of the plain ole nra basic rifle....

    I tell you.... my room clearing course I took is in my top three classes currently, up there with my Night Vision Operator course...... will I even need to use this **** ..... no..... but I would rather spend money on a course over the next 400$ PSA AR that might sit collecting dust in the safe.
     

    Coach

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    Apr 15, 2008
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    Some of us live in places where we are on our own. In 1999 the response time to where I live was 45 minutes. I have not had to call since then so I don't know if it is better now or not. The other times I have had issues recently I ran headlong into the problem outside as I was coming home. Everything worked out ok but there was no calling the cavalry.

    If I ever need house or room clearing skills there will not be time to take a class. If someone enjoys it why not.
     

    Tactically Fat

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    I should add, I'm personally open to taking one "for fun" - not because I'll somehow think that I'll be somehow fully trained and qualified to clear a house on my own.
     

    obijohn

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    If the door is kicked open and I am hearing screaming..... The main reason I would go in is so I wouldnt want to listen to my wife complain that I "should've" done something more/quicker for the rest of my life instead of the 5 minute wait while the police arrive ....

    There is this, of course. I, too, would do this for the same reason. I am sure her scream would be followed by the screams and caterwauling of the intruder.
     
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