One-handed: straight vs bent arm?

[Topshot]

I'm curious who else uses a bent arm when shooting one handed as espoused by Saul Kirsch and Tom Givens? The majority seems to use a straight arm (e.g., Vogel, Koenig, Leatham).

 

[Jackson]

I find I generally have better control if I drive the pistol out to the end of extension. When coming out of the holster for speed this is definitely the case. I don't know if it's true now, but I used to be 0.25 to 0.5 seconds faster drawing and shooting one handed vs two, and that always happened driving the hand out to full extension and even twisting my right side torso out some. I'm not advocating the twist. It just was something I did and had a hard time breaking myself of. Nonetheless, it seemed effective on the timer.

 

[cedartop]

I assume you mean a cant to the gun like homey style and not keeping a straight elbow. The majority of "tactical" trainers I have trained with have at least mentioned the half homey if not outright advocated it. I used it for awhile but don't anymore as I prefer the gun to track straight up and down in recoil. That is one of those things that I am not sure there is a certain right answer for.

 

[Topshot]

I assume you mean a cant to the gun like homey style and not keeping a straight elbow.

No, I'm not referring to canting the gun. I mean actually bending at the elbow vs twisting the arm. It was hard to tell on the video of Tom Givens though he appears to have a slight cant, but Saul Kirsch makes a point that you should even turn the elbow in a bit to encourage better recoil movement. So far those are the only well known folks I've found doing this so I was curious how well practiced this was.

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube;z9Fqx7LxyqI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Fqx7LxyqI[/video]

 

[Coach]

I have a little different take on SHO and WHO shooting than most. The only thing I do differently is to have one hand on the gun. I don't change anything else. Not the cant of the gun, not my stance with the feet, not the eye I use. I keep the gun vertical in both either hand. I am at full extension but not locked at the elbow. I do not shift my feet or stance and lean in more or less. I try to just do what I do with two hands on the gun with the understanding that I do not have anywhere nearly the same recoil control or advantages that I have with two hands on the gun. SHO and WHO is about getting hits, and speed is gravy. The idea that I will default to in an emergency what I do without thinking about it. So I do it all the same. I have a pretty good record of success SHO and WHO in competition but that is only a game.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have a little different take on SHO and WHO shooting than most. The only thing I do differently is to have one hand on the gun. ..The idea that I will default to in an emergency what I do without thinking about it. So I do it all the same.

I agree, and for the same reason. For me, the benefit of keeping it all same-same outweighs whatever marginal gain I could (or could not) have from a change up. I'm also not dedicating enough time to 1H shooting to really lock in any advantage for a 1H specific way to shoot. I'd probably do worse because of that. If I shot for a living and had hours and hours a day of practice, maybe it'd be different, but for where I'm at and for my purposes same-same it is.

 

[Coach]

Same-same is a way for my hobby to carry over and help be ready for something serious.

 

[Topshot]

The idea that I will default to in an emergency what I do without thinking about it. So I do it all the same.

I agree, too. That's why I was surprised when I came across the video of Tom who's widely regarded as an excellent trainer. Do you think he was trying to get some other point across or does he really shoot one-handed that way? I do think he purposely over exaggerated the recoil on that first shot by keeping muscles relaxed.

 

[cedartop]

I agree, too. That's why I was surprised when I came across the video of Tom who's widely regarded as an excellent trainer. Do you think he was trying to get some other point across or does he really shoot one-handed that way? I do think he purposely over exaggerated the recoil on that first shot by keeping muscles relaxed.

Tom is far from the only person that teaches it that way. At the class I was at this last weekend the instructor taught it almost exactly the way Tom does, yet to my knowledge he has never taken a class from him.

 

[Coach]

I agree, too. That's why I was surprised when I came across the video of Tom who's widely regarded as an excellent trainer. Do you think he was trying to get some other point across or does he really shoot one-handed that way? I do think he purposely over exaggerated the recoil on that first shot by keeping muscles relaxed.

I am not sure which video that you mean. I will say this Tom is an excellent trainer and shooter. Bob Vogel is an excellent shooter and trainer. I have taken classes from both. I am better for both classes. I have complete confidence in both. In terms of SHO and WHO I ignore both. Something that troubles me at some level. I weigh 247 pounds today and I am not weak. I have had pretty good results doing things the way I do them for many years. It is possible that I can get by doing things differently than some people of smaller builds.

I think that the technique that both of those men use and teach is about recoil control. Which I think is a good idea. What if I am in a situation where I cannot use either technique because of time, space, and physical ability? I like the process of align the sights and press the trigger. I would speculate that both men would agree with do what you need to do in the context of the situation. The approach that they are both promoting will work and their context is different.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I agree, too. That's why I was surprised when I came across the video of Tom who's widely regarded as an excellent trainer. Do you think he was trying to get some other point across or does he really shoot one-handed that way? I do think he purposely over exaggerated the recoil on that first shot by keeping muscles relaxed.

Honestly, some of it is going to come down to how much you practice and how much benefit you get. If I dry fire 10 minutes a day 5 days a week and live fire once a week, (which is my goal) then I can't have as many "variances" on tap on demand as someone who dry fires an hour a day and live fires every day and specifically works these drills.

That's why I standardize as much as I can.

 

[Topshot]

I am not sure which video that you mean.

This one.

I might try the bent elbow just to see how it works for me, but will stick with an extended arm because that is what I would do instinctively. KISS!

 

[bwframe]

I think another consideration not much spoken of is hand size. Especially in SHO/WHO, how much of a gorilla grip vs baby doll grip on the gun?

 

[Twangbanger]

I agree that one hand is about getting hits, not speed, and so my opinion and experience is that index is more important than recoil control in one hand shooting. Hits not splits. Bending the arm very much seems to introduce variation in my index. So for me it is pretty straight, just not locked.

Everything I said could be wrong. Try for yourself and go see.

 

[Coach]

This one.

I might try the bent elbow just to see how it works for me, but will stick with an extended arm because that is what I would do instinctively. KISS!

KISS is normally a good idea. I am hesitant to do any technique in the context of carry that requires me to assume a particular stance.

To BwFrames point that is perhaps very valid. I try not to squeeze hard with either hand. Just keep the wrist locked and hold on to the gun. The other thing is I am always shooting full size pistols. Not pocket rockets here.

 

[Trigger Time]

I was trained and have practiced to use a slight cant to the pistol when firing one handed which is my natural hand placement when I punch out or extend the pistol and naturally lining up the sights. This can also be done with a rifle in cqb.
This also allows me to use my other hand to gain access to another weapon system, manipulate a door,.car, or to grab onto an individual and lead them to safety while also shielding them with my body while moving. The only right way to handle a gunfight thst your already in is to win it as fast as possible and stay alive to stop the threat. However you've trained to do that is the best way for you. im not as articulate as some others but this is the way I do it. Not putting down anyone else's way.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

My hand instinctually lines up with my eye with about a 30 degree gangster lean and my arm is bowed. I was shown that way and it feels natural. It's fastest way to get on front sight for me. It isn't great for managing recoil though.

 

[rhino]

I can shoot one-handed fairly well. At times I've canted the gun a little inboard, but lately I'm keeping it as vertical as possible unless I an leaning around cover/concealment. I think it's very helpful to keep the gun vertical if you are shooting with one hand while moving because of what Coach mentioned and the way the gun recoils. If you're moving and the gun is canted too much, it's very easy to miss a target even if it's at close range.

As far as elbow go, I won't say mine is "locked," but it's pretty straight.

One of the most common issues I see with people shooting one-handed is the time they waist moving their feet around to establish a specific stance or body position. It might be more comfy or it might help manage recoil a little better, but you need to be able to shoot with either hand or both hands regardless of the way you're standing (or not standing) and it's not a big deal.

 

[Coach]

There is a little one handed shooting on the last stage of this video. This is from a carry gun match in January. It was close and easy shooting. You can see the recoil better with left hand than the right. It is not an impressive display, but I won that stage. As I described previously I try not to change anything with one hand from what I do with two hands.

https://practiscore.com/results/new/50308?q_result=4

[video=youtube;JAtrZKBuH1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAtrZKBuH1I[/video]