Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24
  1. #1
    Grandmaster cedartop's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Announcing The Creation Of The Firearms Trainers Association

    So it looks like someone else is going to give this a try. Interesting.
    Announcing The Creation Of The Firearms Trainers Association - Soldier Systems Daily
    Michael Swisher

  2. #2
    Master Jackson's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cedartop View Post
    So it looks like someone else is going to give this a try. Interesting.
    Announcing The Creation Of The Firearms Trainers Association - Soldier Systems Daily
    Interesting. I wonder where it will go. They have some big training names, but if you aren't on to taking classes already, you probably don't know them.

    Peer review by those 5 would say something to me, though. I'd be more apt to train with you if those guys gave you the stamp of approval.


  3. #3
    Grandmaster Vigilant's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    I'm on the fence, I see a fiefdom starting? I've not trained with Vickers, Reid, or Gonzales, I have with Spaulding and Hackathorn in my 1911/P35 days, and I see a rehash of Gunsite/ Modern Technique training, and an us vs. them mentality. Spaulding has really put me off as late. I've trained in numerous venues with many different instructors, and I take knowledge from EVERYONE of them, good and bad. I see it becoming a pay to play, but play MY way sort of deal. Hope I'm wrong, but Idpa became so silly it isn't worth the time anymore, and look who where big proponents of that?

  4. #4
    Grandmaster Vigilant's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    To add, I do think there needs to be a vetting system for trainers, just not sure this will be it.?

  5. #5
    Master Jackson's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
    I'm on the fence, I see a fiefdom starting? I've not trained with Vickers, Reid, or Gonzales, I have with Spaulding and Hackathorn in my 1911/P35 days, and I see a rehash of Gunsite/ Modern Technique training, and an us vs. them mentality. Spaulding has really put me off as late. I've trained in numerous venues with many different instructors, and I take knowledge from EVERYONE of them, good and bad. I see it becoming a pay to play, but play MY way sort of deal. Hope I'm wrong, but Idpa became so silly it isn't worth the time anymore, and look who where big proponents of that?
    There's not really any one standard system out there. You don't really even have many big name instructors who approach things as if they have considered what the problem is likely to be. If they have, they don't characterize the problem the same way. That's not necessarily a big problem because many of the skills are universal, but it is a difference in philosophy that will make standardization difficult.


  6. #6
    Grandmaster cedartop's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    I see a lot of potential problems. More than I can list right now. As more details become available some of those concerns will probably be addressed.

    I have a lot of respect for Hackathon and Spaulding but these guys all have a lot of well known (and I am sure lesser known) biases. If I was a AIWB instructor who uses a red dot, would I be denied approval? At least one of those guys is that petty. Another big issue is what Jackson mentions, if say they approved James Yeager (for example) that may make me completely disregard anything else they do. For others it may he something like if they approve Mike Swisher, that may turn them off.

    It is pretty clear by who is involved here that this is a stab at the heart of the Instagram famous. I don't have a problem with that, but is it just a lot of "get off my lawn"?

    Someone in the comments said it is their attempt to stay relevant. I don't think that is it. These guys can still sell out classes on a regular basis and Hackathon is almost retired and Spaulding says he is trying to wind it down.

    Like I said, interesting.
    Michael Swisher

  7. #7
    Grandmaster Vigilant's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cedartop View Post
    I see a lot of potential problems. More than I can list right now. As more details become available some of those concerns will probably be addressed.

    I have a lot of respect for Hackathon and Spaulding but these guys all have a lot of well known (and I am sure lesser known) biases. If I was a AIWB instructor who uses a red dot, would I be denied approval? At least one of those guys is that petty. Another big issue is what Jackson mentions, if say they approved James Yeager (for example) that may make me completely disregard anything else they do. For others it may he something like if they approve Mike Swisher, that may turn them off.

    It is pretty clear by who is involved here that this is a stab at the heart of the Instagram famous. I don't have a problem with that, but is it just a lot of "get off my lawn"?

    Someone in the comments said it is their attempt to stay relevant. I don't think that is it. These guys can still sell out classes on a regular basis and Hackathon is almost retired and Spaulding says he is trying to wind it down.

    Like I said, interesting.
    My point exactly, Spaulding for one is extremely biased, since you were a Suarez trainer at one time, does that disqualify you as relevant and approved? This is a big rabbit hole, and it runs deep in ego, feelings, and cash! Don't have an answer for what is needed, but I think a "governing" body for training is needed, not sure how to get there though?

  8. #8
    Master Jackson's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
    My point exactly, Spaulding for one is extremely biased, since you were a Suarez trainer at one time, does that disqualify you as relevant and approved? This is a big rabbit hole, and it runs deep in ego, feelings, and cash! Don't have an answer for what is needed, but I think a "governing" body for training is needed, not sure how to get there though?
    How can you have a governing body when there is no agreement on approaches? At best, you get two or three competing camps, which is basically what you have now.


  9. #9
    Grandmaster Vigilant's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Funny thing is, Lotsa big-name guys have a hard on for Suarez, but thiis new guy, a MARSOC Raider, admits on YouTube to being a two time felon, and NOTHING? I mean this guy's was convicted of felonieS, but got his **** straight and now here he is! He's doing a crap ton of good too, but making money as well. Spaulding and Vickers hold Suarez in great disdain because he plead, but is what he teaches any less relevant than what they teach?

  10. #10
    Grandmaster Vigilant's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Before it goes there, I've trained with Gabe, and learned A LOT, I don't agree with his business ethics/practices sometimes, but I never agree with my wife? Does that make any of us less relevant? Yeager is his own can of worms, but I learned from him as well? Along gwith the folks that have left there, as in Shay from Mindset Labs, I learned more in two days FoF from his class than any other trainer that I can think of, save Louie's shotgun class? Unfortunately, the training world is now full of BTDT guys after 17years of GWOT. I gave up my NRA Instructor creds long ago because of their ethos and Nomenclature. Does me not having NRA creds make me less of a teacher(even though I don't teach), since I'm only a moderate speed, moderate drag veteran with some LE experience? The training world is getting ridiculous with petty fiefdoms, and this organization, with the founders, seems as if it is going to be more of the same pettiness? I guess I'm just crotchety and jaded, but I've got a 214!
    Last edited by Vigilant; 03-12-2018 at 13:18.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •