Instructors limiting gear/equipment choices??

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  • EricG

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    I will be going to the Larry Vickers 1 Day Pistol Marksmanship class. I will be taking both my M&P 9C with XS Big Dots and my G41 with RM06.

    I happen to mention this to a guy I train with and he explained to me that he took a class with LV and employed some XS Big Dots. LV personally hammered his XS sights out mid class and drove in standard notch and post sights. Because even though LV was impressed with how well my friend shot with the XS sights, they have "limited capabilities".

    Am I missing something? Are people not making hits at >50 yds? Wouldnt it be LV's job to teach one how to apply XS sights, though he may not agree with the concept/design?
     

    chezuki

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    In all honesty, I am very skeptical that it went down as described. Why would your friend allow an instructor to do this?

    I have no problems with instructors having goofy equipment rules as long as they are up front about them. In fact, I have passed on a couple classes because the instructors would not allow AIWB carry.

    I’m fairly certain that if an instructor started banging my sights out against my will mid-class, I would be leaving and demanding a refund.
     

    EricG

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    In all honesty, I am very skeptical that it went down as described. Why would your friend allow an instructor to do this?

    I have no problems with instructors having goofy equipment rules as long as they are up front about them. In fact, I have passed on a couple classes because the instructors would not allow AIWB carry.

    I’m fairly certain that if an instructor started banging my sights out against my will mid-class, I would be leaving and demanding a refund.

    Well from what I gathered, it was a mutual agreement after brief discussion during a break.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Well from what I gathered, it was a mutual agreement after brief discussion during a break.

    What did the target and timer show the result was...?

    No loss of speed and perhaps a marginal improvement in accuracy up close, a gain of speed and accuracy at distance would be my guess. There's a reason you don't see them used by high end competitors or professional "for real" shooters.
     

    cedartop

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    This doesn't surprise me. Can't say I disagree with Mr Vickers opinion on XS sights, but I wouldn't hammer them out of a students gun unless they agreed to it. Of course there are reasons I have been to dozens of classes but not one by LAV.
     

    G192127

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    Ignorance comes from even the "experts".
    There are myopic conditions that require the use of XS big dots- a certain diabetic retinopathy to be specific.
     

    Dead Duck

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    I will be going to the Larry Vickers 1 Day Pistol Marksmanship class. I will be taking both my M&P 9C with XS Big Dots and my G41 with RM06.

    I happen to mention this to a guy I train with and he explained to me that he took a class with LV and employed some XS Big Dots. LV personally hammered his XS sights out mid class and drove in standard notch and post sights. Because even though LV was impressed with how well my friend shot with the XS sights, they have "limited capabilities".

    Am I missing something? Are people not making hits at >50 yds? Wouldnt it be LV's job to teach one how to apply XS sights, though he may not agree with the concept/design?



    Are you sure he didn't throw it in the dirt and stomp on it?











    ...oh .... wait....
     

    EricG

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    What did the target and timer show the result was...?

    No loss of speed and perhaps a marginal improvement in accuracy up close, a gain of speed and accuracy at distance would be my guess. There's a reason you don't see them used by high end competitors or professional "for real" shooters.
    The details of performance wasnt really given.
    Why arent XS sights used by "professionals"? Ive heard all the arguments for and against but maybe there is something Im missing.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    The details of performance wasnt really given.
    Why arent XS sights used by "professionals"? Ive heard all the arguments for and against but maybe there is something Im missing.

    If you've heard all the arguments, I'm not sure what you expect me to add. Get a timer and a target and compare your performance with XS vs a high visibility front and blacked out traditional square notch or u-notch rear. Make your decision from there. You'll have real data, not assumptions or feels.

    Your data will almost certainly show you: No loss of speed and perhaps a marginal improvement in accuracy up close, a gain of speed and accuracy at distance
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Ignorance comes from even the "experts".
    There are myopic conditions that require the use of XS big dots- a certain diabetic retinopathy to be specific.

    What's special about the big dot that isn't present in something like the Trijicon HD or any number of other high viz front sights mated to a traditional rear?
     

    chezuki

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    If you've heard all the arguments, I'm not sure what you expect me to add. Get a timer and a target and compare your performance with XS vs a high visibility front and blacked out traditional square notch or u-notch rear. Make your decision from there. You'll have real data, not assumptions or feels.

    Your data will almost certainly show you: No loss of speed and perhaps a marginal improvement in accuracy up close, a gain of speed and accuracy at distance

    This pretty much echos my own experience. I really wanted to like the Big Dots, but as it turns out, I shoot just as fast and with more precision at any distance with a hi-viz front and U notch rear.

    The distances the Big Dots are designed for, and where they are often said to really shine, are the distances where experienced shooters need very little to no sight picture to get good hits anyway.

    IMO, the front sight on iDots, Hackathorne, and Triji HD’s pick up just as fast as the big dot.



     

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