Trainers. How long does it take for stupid to set in

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  • BugI02

    Grandmaster
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    Jul 4, 2013
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    Columbus, OH
    I went with a friend to an indoor range to shoot a bit. I had not shot for about 5 months due to surgery at the end of January and the attendant recovery period and then being really busy at work

    I was appalled and embarrassed. I made functional mistakes when shooting anything other than my carry weapon and I made mental mistakes. I was shooting consistently just a bit left, the shots were not far off and would actually line up vertically. I think I was tightening the grip of my support hand as I was squeezing the trigger

    The really embarassing thing was I turned away from the firing line toward the back bench with a weapon in hand. Magazine removed, slide locked open but still no excuse. I was going to case that gun and select another weapon before I realized what I was doing. Luckily I caught it before the RSO did. This is my 'home' range; I know the drill and in no situation in which I shoot, even at backyard ranges, would such action be proper.

    Any idea what might have happened. I feel like my friend thought I had never had a day of training
     

    epeery

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    Mar 14, 2018
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    I turned away from the firing line toward the back bench with a weapon in hand. Magazine removed, slide locked open but still no excuse. I was going to case that gun and select another weapon before I realized what I was doing. Luckily I caught it before the RSO did. This is my 'home' range; I know the drill and in no situation in which I shoot, even at backyard ranges, would such action be proper.

    I'm assuming you mean you should have brought the case to the line and cased the weapon there.

    At a range I never load a weapon behind the firing line, or remove a loaded one from it, but I probably wouldn't think twice about someone around me doing what you described almost doing.

    Range rules aside, from a safety standpoint, I might even prefer to see the weapon carried, locked open and empty mag removed, back to the case as opposed to being put in the case at the line where I can't see what condition it was left in.

    I'm curious to see what the consensus of the other members who respond is.
     

    BugI02

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    Columbus, OH
    You are correct, I was going to case the weapon. My range requires that cases be brought to the firing position to case or uncase so the weapon is always pointed downrange and I agree with the precaution

    I have shot here for years and am surprised that there did not seem to be any mental 'muscle memory', and as I said; even in more casual shoots the firearms are always pointed downrange (laid out so on the picnic table)

    I just can't come up with some - excuse might be accurate - that "Oh, I thought I was at [whatever]". There just is no situation where that is an appropriate action, and it has me doubting my instincts
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Safety wise, I don't see any degradation. Performance wise, I can see measurable decline after 2-3 weeks. Not huge, but measurable.
     

    turnandshoot4

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    Jan 29, 2008
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    You are correct, I was going to case the weapon. My range requires that cases be brought to the firing position to case or uncase so the weapon is always pointed downrange and I agree with the precaution

    I have shot here for years and am surprised that there did not seem to be any mental 'muscle memory', and as I said; even in more casual shoots the firearms are always pointed downrange (laid out so on the picnic table)

    I just can't come up with some - excuse might be accurate - that "Oh, I thought I was at [whatever]". There just is no situation where that is an appropriate action, and it has me doubting my instincts

    Take a moment and think about your goals the next time you go shooting. Start at the most basic level, the safety rules.

    There is a reason classes start with the safety rules, even the most advanced classes.
     

    Jackson

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    Mar 31, 2008
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    Where was your trigger finger? Where was your muzzle?

    Loaded, unloaded, flagged, in Santa's bag.... muzzle discipline and trigger finger discipline are my primary concern when it comes to gun handling.
     

    Coach

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    Stupid can take hold instantly. Putting a gun away, holstering it, bagging it, flagging it and whatever else needs to not be done in a hurry. Take a breath, look around and scan the area, and THINK about what you are doing. People get unsafe with a gun in their hands when there is a malfunction and the gun does not run. People get unsafe when the match or class is over and they suspend the good gun handling they have just practiced for perhaps hours because they have changed gears mentally into doing other stuff.

    My advice is always finish before moving on to the next thing. Follow the proper range procedures for putting the guns away. Focus on that until it is completed.
    Putting a gun away is not something that can be done by rote. The place and time and the situation can vary drastically and your head needs to be on the task at hand. I truly believe proper pace is important, and of course focus. When not focused we can all screw up.

    I might add that following the procedures at the range that you are at is important. You cannot do what you feel is appropriate of the range rules do not allow it. Even if you own and run your own range that way. When in Rome do as the Romans. If you don't think it is safe don't go to Rome. For example if the range requires casing and uncasing the guns on the firing line do it that way.
     

    GIJEW

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    Mar 14, 2009
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    Echoing what Coach and jackson said, habits and decision making are fundamentally different. Safe gun handling (muzzle/trigger finger discipline) can be a conditioned reflex, so you can make decisions about threats without your gun handling being yet another threat to you or bystanders. Decisions about what to do (ie whether to load/unload and abiding by range regulations) require you to focus on what you're doing without distraction. You can only think about one thing at a time.

    Habitual action can assist in executing a decision; relying on habit instead of thinking and then deciding--called complacency--is thoughtless and can be dangerous.

    FWIW while it sounds like you gave the range rules a compound fracture, it doesn't sound like your gun handling was inherently unsafe.
     

    Twangbanger

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    Oct 9, 2010
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    I belong to one range which allows the exact action you described.

    I belong to another one, which doesn't.

    What you did was probably not cool. But most handgun-only shooters would have a heart attack if they went to, say, a trapshoot.

    It grates some peoples' ears to hear it, but it goes to show that what we may regard as absolute, can sometimes be situational, depending on the context.

    It sounds like you are giving due reflection to this incident. That's good; reflection on past occurrences is one of the cornerstones of safety in any environment.

    Learn a lesson, but don't beat yourself up, bug.
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
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    Jul 4, 2013
    31,896
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    Columbus, OH
    Where was your trigger finger? Where was your muzzle?

    Loaded, unloaded, flagged, in Santa's bag.... muzzle discipline and trigger finger discipline are my primary concern when it comes to gun handling.

    Those instincts were still engaged. Muzzle pointed at the floor (although in this case it is a concrete floor, so not really safe just safer than the alternatives) trigger finger out of the guard lying alongside the frame
     

    BugI02

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    Thanks for the assist, gentlemen. I will implement the advice to focus on the task at hand as I believe it was complacency that was at the heart of the problem - the expectation that I'm an old hand and would just instinctively do what's proper

    Upon further review, I think I may have received a nudge out of routine because we were both shooting several different calibers and using the same bay. I think because my friend was shooting, subconsciously I was wanting not to interfere with his shoot. I should have just left the gun on the table (there was plenty of room) until he was done, but I was thinking ahead to getting started loading magazines for the next gun I wanted to shoot. Sadly, nothing was preventing me from doing exactly that, the mistake with the firing line gun was wholly unnecessary. It's a good lesson in how decision making can go bad if I'm on autopilot and not really keeping my head in the activity

    As for shooting left, going to do some dry fire and then shoot a lot more :)

    No spoonful of sugar needed for that medicine
     

    Expat

    Pdub
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    Feb 27, 2010
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    This is an example of why I avoid shooting with other people . The idea that you feel bad or should be corrected for having an unloaded gun with the action open and taking it back to put in its case just blows my mind.
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
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    Jul 4, 2013
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    Columbus, OH
    Well, I was really correcting myself. My friend didn't say anything nor did the RSO. I may have been more hyper-aware of the breach than anyone else, but it was still a violation of the house rules, which I agree with

    I love the place because it is run by retired LEOs and if they know you and believe you know what you're doing they have a light touch, but they weed out the yahoos really quickly. I just don't want them to start thinking maybe I don't know what I'm doing after all (and I want to stay convinced that I know what I'm doing)
     

    fullmetaljesus

    Probably smoking a cigar.
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    Jan 12, 2012
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    At this point I would just call it an 'off' day.
    Now I know an 'off' day with guns can lead to injury it death. My point is, you shooting off but at least in the right direction. No ham no foul.
    Sure you took a gun off the range, but it was at least as "safe" as a gun gets. As others have said I wouldn't have thought second about you doing that.

    You immediately realized what you were doing, and made concessions as needed I'm sure

    I'd call it a bad day, not a case of "the stupid".

    If you go back and this kind of thing happens two or three more times. Id suggest, you leave the firing position step away , have a pal look after your guns while you're gone. Grab a coke sit outside clear your head don't get down in yourself just walk yourself through the steps.

    While drinking your soda, in your head Pretend you are talking someone through the motions. Guns uncased on range, barrel flag, case back on shelf, back to gun, load, acquire target, breathing and trigger pull method you use.

    Just clear you head, finish your pop, then venture back in and slow yourself down, walk yourself through it again. When ready fire.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 18, 2008
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    Indiana
    I went with a friend to an indoor range to shoot a bit. I had not shot for about 5 months due to surgery at the end of January and the attendant recovery period and then being really busy at work

    I was appalled and embarrassed. I made functional mistakes when shooting anything other than my carry weapon and I made mental mistakes. I was shooting consistently just a bit left, the shots were not far off and would actually line up vertically. I think I was tightening the grip of my support hand as I was squeezing the trigger

    The really embarassing thing was I turned away from the firing line toward the back bench with a weapon in hand. Magazine removed, slide locked open but still no excuse. I was going to case that gun and select another weapon before I realized what I was doing. Luckily I caught it before the RSO did. This is my 'home' range; I know the drill and in no situation in which I shoot, even at backyard ranges, would such action be proper.

    Any idea what might have happened. I feel like my friend thought I had never had a day of training

    The sign at the Boone County Sheriff's range says something about making the four rules part of your character. When we have lapses like this, it reminds us that we have not yet sufficiently programmed ourselves to adhere to appropriate risk management procedures so that it takes deliberate thought to deviate from them.
     

    Coach

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    Apr 15, 2008
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    I belong to one range which allows the exact action you described.

    I belong to another one, which doesn't.

    What you did was probably not cool. But most handgun-only shooters would have a heart attack if they went to, say, a trapshoot.

    It grates some peoples' ears to hear it, but it goes to show that what we may regard as absolute, can sometimes be situational, depending on the context.

    It sounds like you are giving due reflection to this incident. That's good; reflection on past occurrences is one of the cornerstones of safety in any environment.

    Learn a lesson, but don't beat yourself up, bug.

    I have seen first hand what you are talking about with trap shooters. I don't go there are a result.
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
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    Jul 4, 2013
    31,896
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    Columbus, OH
    The sign at the Boone County Sheriff's range says something about making the four rules part of your character. When we have lapses like this, it reminds us that we have not yet sufficiently programmed ourselves to adhere to appropriate risk management procedures so that it takes deliberate thought to deviate from them.

    Yes sir, it was a good reminder. I've always driven everything fast and I like to think well and your head always has to be in the game. The same is true for firearms, and the cost of a moments inattention could be just as great
     

    WebSnyper

    Maximum Effort
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    Jul 3, 2010
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    Thanks for the assist, gentlemen. I will implement the advice to focus on the task at hand as I believe it was complacency that was at the heart of the problem - the expectation that I'm an old hand and would just instinctively do what's proper

    Upon further review, I think I may have received a nudge out of routine because we were both shooting several different calibers and using the same bay. I think because my friend was shooting, subconsciously I was wanting not to interfere with his shoot. I should have just left the gun on the table (there was plenty of room) until he was done, but I was thinking ahead to getting started loading magazines for the next gun I wanted to shoot. Sadly, nothing was preventing me from doing exactly that, the mistake with the firing line gun was wholly unnecessary. It's a good lesson in how decision making can go bad if I'm on autopilot and not really keeping my head in the activity

    As for shooting left, going to do some dry fire and then shoot a lot more :)

    No spoonful of sugar needed for that medicine

    I have seen a lot of people do things they would not normally do when shooting with a group/sharing a lane, etc. Being cognizant that there is potential for distraction and working to avoid it is very important. Also a reason to let people know in advance that while everyone is there to have a good time, that being focused and safe is most important. Obviously training to handle distraction is important, but I also like to keep distraction to a minimum when I'm shooting (i.e. I don't want someone chatting my ear off while at/close to the firing line, etc). There are times and places for that away from the line/gun in hand area, IMO.

    That you caught it yourself while in process of doing it, and are reflecting on it is very good IMO.
     
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