Jiu Jitsu Competition As Training Tool?

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,336
    63
    West side of Indy
    Yesterday I competed in my first Brazilian Jiu Jitsu competition. I lost 4-2 in the gi competition and injured a rib forcing me to pull out of the no gi portion. I was pretty disappointed in my performance, but it was a good experience.

    I've been training off and on around my work schedule for the past few years. I hadn't previously been interested in competition. I started BJJ as a self-defense tool and a fitness activity. I'm not a competitive person and generally don't have the "go get 'em" attitude that I think is probably required to be successful in competition. So I didn't think competition was for me.

    After being encouraged by my training partners, and comparing it to how I approach other parts of training, I have decided that competition is important. It was a mistake for me not to compete from the beginning. I believe force on force training is an essential part of testing and learning self-defense skills. I think practical pistol competition is a really good way of testing and learning pure shooting skills. I'm not sure why I thought I should learn Jiu Jitsu without a real pressure test. I think it has merits and application to self-defense training as well.

    • It is more stressful than learning grappling in the gym with your training buddies. For me it was not as stressful as a well-done force-on-force scenario, but there was a measure of stress. The audience adds to that.
    • You're competing against someone you've never met. You have no idea what they can or will do.
    • You know the resistance is real. When in the gym with your buddies or even most force on force scenarios, no one is going all out. You can never be sure if you got that take-down, sweep, or sub because they were only going 70% or because you are just that good. The competition is the true test of what you can do.
    • Testing is required to assess skills and make adjustments in training. Competition is the best test. Competition focuses training.

    Sure, it doesn't look like a "real fight". There's no striking, no weapons, and we're on cushy mats. These are all things I used to think when I was deciding not to compete in the past and those are certainly limitations. But basic grappling skills are basic grappling skills, and some of it (most?) is universally applicable. I now believe if I'd been competing from the beginning my grappling skills would be substantially better than they are today.


    What does INGO think? Is grappling competition a worthwhile pursuit in terms of improving the trainee's ability to win a fight?










    Below is a shot of me (blue gi) with an underhook, good head position, and inside control on the other side. I've been working a couple techniques from this position for the past couple months. Unfortunately I attempted NONE of the things that I've been working. I tried to do a poorly executed judo technique that I've never properly practiced. I ended up on the bottom and remained there for the majority of the 5 minute match. My opponent was awarded 2 points for a takedown for reversing my failed Judo throw. I don't know what I was thinking there.
    30997580548_6c4b90fa82_c.jpg
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    What does INGO think? Is grappling competition a worthwhile pursuit in terms of improving the trainee's ability to win a fight?

    Without a doubt. Training and competition in grappling of any type if better than no training or experience if a fight comes calling. If I could pick the opponent I want the guy with no experience of training.

    That is a good underhook position.
     

    Riggs226

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 19, 2018
    115
    16
    SLLERSBURG
    Congratulations on your fist competition! It’s great for self defense! The worst thing that could happen in a street fight is you go to the ground and it’s best to be educated on worst case scenarios.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    What does INGO think? Is grappling competition a worthwhile pursuit in terms of improving the trainee's ability to win a fight?

    Yes, without any doubt.

    However, I'm a little disappointed that your blue uniform didn't propel you to victory over the other guy and his mundane white uniform. Looking good should matter!
     
    Last edited:

    jkdbjj

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 11, 2015
    117
    18
    rural
    Good for you, Jackson.

    Competing makes you overcome lots of little voices telling you why you shouldn't. You will get better...and in many areas unrelated to BJJ.

    Get that rib iced and listen to your coach---you have the best there is.
     

    Fargo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Mar 11, 2009
    7,575
    63
    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    Any of these full contact martial competitions are just another variant of force on force in my opinion. They really help you understand what stress and uncertainty can do to your plans/skills/ability.

    I have fought in the ring up at the Tyndall Armory a number of times. There is a world of difference between getting in there with a guy you have never met in front of a whole ton of people, versus sparring with the guys at the boxing gym. In my experience, you learn something from the fights you win, but you learn the most from the ones that you lose.

    While there is certainly value in technical competition like point fighting etc., I really think that when it really hurts when you are really trying is when you really learn.
     

    Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,336
    63
    West side of Indy


    That is a good underhook position.

    It was my plan to get there. I had to work for it, but not as hard as I expected. After reviewing the video, I missed a lot of opportunities in the stand-up battle. There is much work to be done from a wrestling perspective.
     

    Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,336
    63
    West side of Indy
    Any of these full contact martial competitions are just another variant of force on force in my opinion. They really help you understand what stress and uncertainty can do to your plans/skills/ability.

    I almost titled the thread "BJJ Competition as FoF Exercise" but I didn't want to get lost in any arguments about realism or what FoF is "supposed" to be. That was my thought, though.
     

    Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,336
    63
    West side of Indy
    Yes, without any doubt.

    However, I'm a little disappointed that your blue uniform didn't propel you to victory over the other guy and his mundane white uniform. Looking good should matter!

    I KNOW! I just got that Blue gi and I think it looks pretty sharp, myself.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    It was my plan to get there. I had to work for it, but not as hard as I expected. After reviewing the video, I missed a lot of opportunities in the stand-up battle. There is much work to be done from a wrestling perspective.

    I'm guessing you did not wrestle in school?
     

    Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,336
    63
    West side of Indy
    I'm guessing you did not wrestle in school?

    I did not. I didn't have any interest in it then and didn't see the value. Now I recognize wrestling as the backbone of most serious fighting. I regret not having wrestled. I'm trying to integrate it with BJJ where I can, but its one of those things that is probably a lot easier to learn when you're 11 years old and practicing 4-5 days a week.

    I'm also very interested in Judo and will add it to the mix when I can find the time.
     
    Last edited:

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    I did not. I didn't have any interest in it then and didn't see the value. Now I recognize wrestling as the backbone of most serious fighting. I regret not having wrestled. I'm trying to integrate it with BJJ where I can, but its one of those things that is probably a lot easier to learn when you're 11 years old and practicing 4-5 days a week.

    I'm also very interested in Judo and will add it to the mix when I can find the time.

    Are there clubs where adults can learn and practice folk-style and olympic-style wrestling, both freestyle and greco-roman.
     

    Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,336
    63
    West side of Indy
    Are there clubs where adults can learn and practice folk-style and olympic-style wrestling, both freestyle and greco-roman.

    That was phrased in the form of a question, but with a period. Are you saying there are, or asking if there are?

    If a question, I want to say yes, but I'm not aware of them. Many MMA gyms will have wrestling classes geared toward the sport of MMA. Really, this is probably the best avenue for me at this point. It would really focus on wrestling as it applies to a striking environment and integrates with submission grappling. I imagine it leaves out much of the wider base of wrestling that even a good HS wrestler or collegiate wrestler would have. This is all complete conjecture on my part. There are clubs and training organizations that, as far as I know, cater to school wrestlers in the off season. I don't know whether they would accept an adult with no experience.

    You can also find an old High School wrestling coach and pay him by the hour to show you stuff in your garage on every other Sunday evening. It's a slower route, but for the busy professional who already does another martial art 2-3x a week, it may be a viable option.
     

    hammerd13

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 20, 2015
    350
    63
    Hamilton County
    Great job Jackson! I trained BJJ hard for about 4 years, and reluctantly competed a few times. I also wrestled in high school. I'm similar to you, in that I'm not super competitive and I don't particularly enjoy the nerves that go along with competing. For all these reasons (and more), competing is invaluable!

    - I like that fact that in Jiu Jitsu (and grappling in general) you can go 100% (especially during competition) and not have a significant chance of injury. For this reason, it's easy to train for many years. Try bare-fist boxing and see how it goes!!
    - Having superior grappling skills over an opponent on the street will go a long way to stack the odds in your favor. Fights almost always end up in a clinch, if not on the ground.
    - BJJ teaches you how to function (physically and mentally) in relatively stressful situations. Learning how to out-think and deceive your opponent while in an intense physical battle is very handy indeed.

    Keep up the great work!! OSS.

    One of my favorite quotes that puts competition into perspective...

    “It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    I would be interested in seeing a clip of video showing getting the under hook and what happened there. You don't have to post it just email it to me if you can. I am interested.
     

    cedartop

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 25, 2010
    6,687
    113
    North of Notre Dame.
    I think it is great. Good for you Jackson. There is no doubt competition has improved my shooting. I would expect the same to happen in Jiu Jitsu. As to the wrestling, I was listening to a Jocko podcast today and he says that is without a doubt the biggest regret of people starting out in MMA or BJJ is that they didn't wrestle as a youngster.
     

    hoosierdaddy1976

    I Can't Believe it's not Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Mar 17, 2011
    6,469
    149
    newton county
    Are there clubs where adults can learn and practice folk-style and olympic-style wrestling, both freestyle and greco-roman.
    Check iswa.com for any local clubs. When I was in school, there were several old timers who wrestled. One of them had to be taken away in an ambulance after I hit a good throw on him.
     

    Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,336
    63
    West side of Indy
    I think it is great. Good for you Jackson. There is no doubt competition has improved my shooting. I would expect the same to happen in Jiu Jitsu. As to the wrestling, I was listening to a Jocko podcast today and he says that is without a doubt the biggest regret of people starting out in MMA or BJJ is that they didn't wrestle as a youngster.

    When are we going to hear about you joining a grappling gym?
     

    Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,336
    63
    West side of Indy
    Check iswa.com for any local clubs. When I was in school, there were several old timers who wrestled. One of them had to be taken away in an ambulance after I hit a good throw on him.

    One of my foremost training goals is to avoid the ambulance and be able to walk in to work the next day under my own power. I'm not yet old, but not as resilient as I probably was in school.
     
    Top Bottom