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  1. #1
    Plinker drhoades83's Avatar

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    Accuracy expectations

    As a novice shooter, I find myself becoming overwhelmed at times with the vast array of information to make me into a better marksman. I have in the past few years been making more of an effort to train with qualified instructors who have real world experience. I have no military background, fall into the classic "grew up with guns" grouping, and have a genuine desire to excel beyond my current ability. I will be taking my first carbine course in a couple weeks...https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...9&share_type=t

    The short of it.. what is an acceptable standard to be considered a "decent" marksman. What are military qualifications, competition level, etc.

    Any and all feedback welcome as long as it's constructive...

    The following target from today's range session was standing, free-hand @ 50m.

    Colt 6920, eotech 517, no frills AR

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    "You only get smarter by playing a smarter opponent"-Fundamentals of chess 1883

  2. #2
    Grandmaster patience0830's Avatar

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    Bad guy is dead. You could use some work, but the bad guy is dead.
    Training, SOLDIER!

  3. #3
    Grandmaster MCgrease08's Avatar

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    Can you hit a 12" x 12" shingle at 200 yards on your first shot standing with a cold barrel?

    I highly recommend taking a Revere's Riders basic rifle class. You will learn the proper fundamentals related to manipulating the rifle, shooting positions, proper sight picture, natural point of aim, breathing and calling shots.

    https://www.reveresriders.org
    If I had a gun for every ace I have drawn, I could arm a town the size of Abilene.

  4. #4
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    Historically, to be considered "above average" on your feet, being able to place all your rounds into 3-5 MOA is probably about the standard.

    An offhand group the size of your fist at 100 yards is not easy, has never ever been easy, and will not be anytime soon. It's one of the most enduring struggles in all of marksmanship.

    You're doing the right things with the right mentality, but I will somewhat cautiously suggest that you might not have the right coaches.

    These days, it is, in my observation, a very rare coach indeed that has the knowledge to get you to that level with the offhand position.

    Of all the shooting I do, I am proudest of my ability--hard won--to stand on two feet and deliver a round on target. I'm proud of it because it's hard, and I have had to work my ass off to get to where I am, which, though not nearly as far as I want to BE, is a fur piece from where I was. The only thing I could get happier about is if I could figger out how to completely let go and shoot just for me...I'm working on that.

    Offhand shooting is an entire life's work. It is, in my opinion, best approached with a little reverence and enjoyed as a process and art rather than seeking a particular result on a particular schedule.

    If you'd like to talk more about shooting this way, I'd ruther chat on the phone, or at a class you attend. Too much to type.

    -Nate
    President's Hundred
    A2 Service Rifle High Master XC
    Distinguished Rifleman
    1,000 yd A2 Service Rifle Expert
    Incessant Tinkerer

  5. #5
    Plinker drhoades83's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MCgrease08 View Post

    I highly recommend taking a Revere's Riders basic rifle class. You will learn the proper fundamentals related to manipulating the rifle, shooting positions, proper sight picture, natural point of aim, breathing and calling shots.

    https://www.reveresriders.org
    I will be attending their carbine class on Dec 8

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    "You only get smarter by playing a smarter opponent"-Fundamentals of chess 1883

  6. #6
    Plinker drhoades83's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by natdscott View Post
    Historically, to be considered "above average" on your feet, being able to place all your rounds into 3-5 MOA is probably about the standard.

    An offhand group the size of your fist at 100 yards is not easy, has never ever been easy, and will not be anytime soon. It's one of the most enduring struggles in all of marksmanship.

    You're doing the right things with the right mentality, but I will somewhat cautiously suggest that you might not have the right coaches.

    These days, it is, in my observation, a very rare coach indeed that has the knowledge to get you to that level with the offhand position.

    Of all the shooting I do, I am proudest of my ability--hard won--to stand on two feet and deliver a round on target. I'm proud of it because it's hard, and I have had to work my ass off to get to where I am, which, though not nearly as far as I want to BE, is a fur piece from where I was. The only thing I could get happier about is if I could figger out how to completely let go and shoot just for me...I'm working on that.

    Offhand shooting is an entire life's work. It is, in my opinion, best approached with a little reverence and enjoyed as a process and art rather than seeking a particular result on a particular schedule.

    If you'd like to talk more about shooting this way, I'd ruther chat on the phone, or at a class you attend. Too much to type.

    -Nate
    Sage advice, thank you. I have no particular schedule as I am usually a busy person. I intend on a lifelong journey of honing skill. But I get out as often as my time allows. Just trying to lay a foundation I can build upon, and ultimately pass to my children. I've been working primarily on pistol skills lately and need to get into more rifle related works outside of my usual hunting and target shooting.

    What venue do you instruct at? I live an hour south of Indy.

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    "You only get smarter by playing a smarter opponent"-Fundamentals of chess 1883

  7. #7
    Grandmaster SmileDocHill's Avatar

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    As you study and immerse yourself in information keep in mind there are different situations people are picturing when they speak of marksmanship. It can be a significantly different conversation.
    In other words, the conversation, techniques, drills, metrics... are all different for a NRA or CMP highpower rifle competitor vs Tactical carbine competitor (move and shoot, fast target acquisitio) vs carbine for self/home defense use vs military/LEO rifle use.

    Side note: I always thought it would make a funny video to cross one style with the other setting. Make a fake commercial where the homeowner hears the "bump in the night", then takes 5 minutes to put his shooting jacket on, sling up the rifle, chicken wing the arm... Or the opposite where you have the firing line with the highly disciplined long range shooters with all their gear waiting to shoot about 1 round a minute... you hear the fire command and some guy stands up, squares away and rapid fires 10 rounds, quick reload after yelling "reloading!", then does a thread assessment before being done.


  8. #8
    Expert

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    ...and yet, really good Offhand shooters have no real issue modifying to some other style of shooting.

    I have no less than 3 styles of Offhand myself, arguably a 4th, and that does not specifically take into account variances made for different firearms.





    -Nate
    President's Hundred
    A2 Service Rifle High Master XC
    Distinguished Rifleman
    1,000 yd A2 Service Rifle Expert
    Incessant Tinkerer

  9. #9
    Plinker drhoades83's Avatar

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    I am not looking for a specific style/situation to move towards. I may do a few competetive steel matches just for shatsygiggles. Don't want to restrict myself to one discipline (target shooting, defensive, etc.), yet I don't want to be John Wick-Miculek either.

    Just want to be a better me with a(ny) firearm in general. Looking to tighten up across the board.

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    "You only get smarter by playing a smarter opponent"-Fundamentals of chess 1883

  10. #10
    Hop
    Hop is offline
    Master Hop's Avatar

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    Your 1st post says you'll be taking the Revere's Riders carbine class. That will be fun but we're not going to focus on off hand accuracy.

    The RR or Appleseed basic rifle classes are a good start but even those don't focus on off hand marksmanship. They'll get you pointed in the right direction though. Hell, I'm still learning too. There are so so many tricks. I'd like to pick Nate's brain and learn to stack more rounds into the X ring myself!

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