Just wondering....

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  • CENTURIATOR

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 23, 2018
    64
    8
    Saint Louis
    I read a lot of these AAR posts on training classes and was curious. I've never noticed this, but maybe somebody else has.

    Has anyone seen a guy put up a review of class he took, spending anywhere from $300-$1000 for and said, "Wow, was that ever a waste of my time and money. Don't ever take a class from this guy and here's why."

    Anyone?

    :)
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
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    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    I have taken some classes that I will not repeat. I have not ever been through a class all the way and said this was a complete waste of time and I learned nothing. I have gotten up and walked out of a class before we were very far into it. Because I was not willing to comply with no gun or ammo in the room or whatever the rules were. I would not have bothered to go if I had known of this in advance.

    I have had classes where I did not like the material or the approach to the material, but I will vote with my feet and not go back. So far I have not been willing to bash the instructor or the class publicly. If someone asks my opinion in person I will tell them what I think. Normally I have checked the instructor and the class out enough in advance that I am confident that it will be fine. Do most people not do that?

    There are classes and instructors that I would never spend money to attend or even attend for free.

    When I have been in classes that asked for feedback I have given it. Honest feedback. But I am not going to bash someone publicly. As a firearms instructor I just figure my public bashing will be interpreted as running down the competition and not mean very much at any rate.

    If something was drastically unsafe or if the material was dangerous and wrong. Those would be the exceptions.
     

    devildog70

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 9, 2011
    168
    28
    I have taken some classes that I will not repeat. I have not ever been through a class all the way and said this was a complete waste of time and I learned nothing. I have gotten up and walked out of a class before we were very far into it. Because I was not willing to comply with no gun or ammo in the room or whatever the rules were. I would not have bothered to go if I had known of this in advance.

    I have had classes where I did not like the material or the approach to the material, but I will vote with my feet and not go back. So far I have not been willing to bash the instructor or the class publicly. If someone asks my opinion in person I will tell them what I think. Normally I have checked the instructor and the class out enough in advance that I am confident that it will be fine. Do most people not do that?

    There are classes and instructors that I would never spend money to attend or even attend for free.

    When I have been in classes that asked for feedback I have given it. Honest feedback. But I am not going to bash someone publicly. As a firearms instructor I just figure my public bashing will be interpreted as running down the competition and not mean very much at any rate.

    If something was drastically unsafe or if the material was dangerous and wrong. Those would be the exceptions.

    This is my view of it as well.

    Add in that I choose classes based on thorough research, and each class is based on a specific goal - for example, I wanted to get better at engaging multiple targets quickly, so I went to Rogers Shooting School and Frank Proctor. If I went to either looking for concealed carry tips, I would have been disappointed.
     

    JollyMon

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Sep 27, 2012
    3,547
    63
    Westfield, IN
    I took a class that I wouldn’t take again... scratch that.... I would take the course again given the instructor was different.

    I have seen videos (after the fact) of the same course by the same company and the same place just a different instructor and our class got to experience none of it. It was disappointing.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    I haven't posted any overtly negative reviews of class, but I've read a few negative reports about classes I have taught. One focused on me dismissing the value of "scanning" after engaging a threat, but in my opinion it was a complete misunderstanding of something I said. I opined that it doesn't make a lot of sense to stand still and look around and behind if you are able to move. The guy interpreted that as me claiming that scanning was worthless and that really bothered him. I can't remember who it was, but I don't think he trained with us again after that, which was fine. If it's someone who is still a regular here on INGO, let me know if I remembered correctly!

    People are hesitant to post negative reviews for a variety of reasons, many of them quite valid. If it's not a safety issue, it's just not worth the time and effort dealing with the inevitable attacks from the fanboys whose idol you impugned with your (in their minds) scurrilous commentary. I have withheld public comment on several situations that I have as a student, but when someone asks me specifically about it I will share my opinion and experience with them.
     

    CENTURIATOR

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 23, 2018
    64
    8
    Saint Louis
    So...interesting responses. Seems people are afraid of posting negative/honest reviews. I wonder why? If you have put out hundreds of bucks for a class and it sucks, why not post an honest review?

    Most of the reviews posted here and anywhere where are nothing but praise, and that's great...if it is true.
     

    jsharmon7

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    119   0   0
    Nov 24, 2008
    7,821
    113
    Freedonia
    So...interesting responses. Seems people are afraid of posting negative/honest reviews. I wonder why? If you have put out hundreds of bucks for a class and it sucks, why not post an honest review?

    Most of the reviews posted here and anywhere where are nothing but praise, and that's great...if it is true.

    I think Rhino is on to something when he mentions fear of appearing to attack someone’s guru. I also think some people are worried about looking like a know-it-all by critiquing an “expert.” If I critique this person then it will look like I think I know more than they do.

    I’ve never had a bad class experience because I’ve always taken something away. If I’ve ever had a complaint it’s that I’ve been to a class or two where time could have been used much more efficiently. There was a lot of good info but I didn’t get the most out of it due to wasting time. No specific examples off the top of my head though.
     

    devildog70

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 9, 2011
    168
    28
    So...interesting responses. Seems people are afraid of posting negative/honest reviews. I wonder why? If you have put out hundreds of bucks for a class and it sucks, why not post an honest review?

    Most of the reviews posted here and anywhere where are nothing but praise, and that's great...if it is true.

    I put out honest AAR's. However, like I said, I do enough research before taking a class to have not been bitten in several dozen of them. For me to blast someone, I'd have to see safety issues that were either the fault of the instructor, or not addressed by the instructor. If I get what I came for out of the class, kinda pointless to blast them for not giving me more. I don't generally care about instructor personalities - it's not why I go to classes. If I find them to be a "good guy," I'll mention it, but it's not going to color the answer to "Did I get what I came for out of this class?"

    It has nothing to do with fear. It has to do with knowing that what I am looking for might not be what Rhino or Coach (as examples) are looking for, and just because I got or did not get what I wanted out of a class, doesn't mean that they will or won't. Safety is a universal - expectations are not. I did an AAR of Tom Givens here, not long ago, and was questioned about one of the statements I made in it (a valid question, too). It was not a negative (although, if someone went to the class expecting to have that issue covered, and didn't see it, it might have been taken to be negative). I would, and absolutely will, train with Tom again. But, one statement which was not meant as a negative, may very well have been taken as such - and that was not my intention at all. So even innocent stuff has the potential to be taken wrong.
     

    Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,334
    63
    West side of Indy
    So...interesting responses. Seems people are afraid of posting negative/honest reviews. I wonder why? If you have put out hundreds of bucks for a class and it sucks, why not post an honest review?

    Most of the reviews posted here and anywhere where are nothing but praise, and that's great...if it is true.

    I think I post fairly objective and factual reviews that include the negatives and positives of the classes. I clearly separate the details of drills and material covered from my opinion. I posted two AARs where I relay negative opinions to different degrees. Were these not examples of what you're looking for?

    Have you had a negative experience with classes you've taken? Is there something specific you're looking for here?
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    I have never made less than honest posts on here, and particularly about classes.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    93   0   0
    Feb 11, 2008
    38,170
    113
    Btown Rural
    So...interesting responses. Seems people are afraid of posting negative/honest reviews. I wonder why? If you have put out hundreds of bucks for a class and it sucks, why not post an honest review?

    Most of the reviews posted here and anywhere where are nothing but praise, and that's great...if it is true.

    "Afraid" is an interesting choice of words. :scratch:

    What classes have you attended?
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    So...interesting responses. Seems people are afraid of posting negative/honest reviews. I wonder why? If you have put out hundreds of bucks for a class and it sucks, why not post an honest review?

    Most of the reviews posted here and anywhere where are nothing but praise, and that's great...if it is true.

    You have created a false dichotomy. Refraining from posting a negative review does not equate to the reviews that are posted being dishonest.
     
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