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  1. #21
    Master cbhausen's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMGPpVtO1vw - Checking your pistol laser with your hand, and then function checking your gun and ammo with said hand.
    That was hard to watch. I bet he “thought” it wasn’t loaded too...
    Endowment Member, National Rifle Association; Member, Gun Owners of America; Member, Second Amendment Foundation; Member, Marion County Fish and Game Association; Member, Revere's Riders; Rifleman, Project Appleseed; Private Pilot, Airplane, Single-Engine Land; Snob, Forum Settings

  2. #22
    Plinker Trapper Jim's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddg View Post
    1. You are right, and I know that reflects on my deficiencies, but that is where I am.
    2. I will not keep a round in the chamber in my Sig 365, and I have an appropriate holster, since there is not a safety.
    3. If I like the size of the P-10, I will replace it with the P-07 (has safety/decocker), just like I will sell my Sig 365 and get one with a safety when it is out.
    4. Perhaps there is even a Ruger or Smith that would qualify with 15ish rounds and a more petite size with a safety, I just haven't gone down that road yet b/c I don't need be in any hurry b/c I have the Sig 365.
    Sequestering your equipment is alot more work and not foolproof. I would suggest learning and practicing professional gun handling so that you can not hurt yourself or somebody with any firearm that you handle. Just sayin.
    Last edited by Trapper Jim; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:56. Reason: spelling
    "See you on the Range"

  3. #23
    MODus Operandi
    Roadie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddg View Post
    1. You are right, and I know that reflects on my deficiencies, but that is where I am.
    2. I will not keep a round in the chamber in my Sig 365, and I have an appropriate holster, since there is not a safety.
    3. If I like the size of the P-10, I will replace it with the P-07 (has safety/decocker), just like I will sell my Sig 365 and get one with a safety when it is out.
    4. Perhaps there is even a Ruger or Smith that would qualify with 15ish rounds and a more petite size with a safety, I just haven't gone down that road yet b/c I don't need be in any hurry b/c I have the Sig 365.
    Not to add another tangent, but..

    We all are at different places in our firearms journey, and for most of us, what we are comfortable with will change over time. For me:
    I only started carrying a bit over 9 years ago. In the beginning I carried without one in the chamber. Then, I saw a video of a jewelry store clerk getting robbed, where his gun did not have one chambered. He fumbled the rack, and was shot dead.
    So, I started carrying with one in the chamber, but still insisted on a safety. Then, i took an 8 hour, 400+ round, Defensive Handgun course. If you had a gun with a safety, you were required to use it. Click, click, click click. For 8 hours. Then, near the end as fatigue set in, I missed the safety several times. So, I started carrying with the safety off, and soon went out and bought a striker fired pistol without a manual safety.
    I took a tactical handgun class over the weekend. We went over what happens in a self defense situation, and how you can lose fine motor skills. The Instructor suggested putting your hands in ice water for 30 seconds, then trying to manipulate you(unloaded) firearm to simulate what happens.

    A split second delay because of additional firearm manipulations required to get you into the fight, could cost you your life, or someone else's that you love. Practice, get training, practice, get training. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

    "Criminals are never materially handicapped by such rules; the only effect is to disarm the peaceful citizen and put him fully at the mercy of the lawless. Such rules look very pretty on paper;
    in practice they are as foolish and footless as the attempt of the mice to bell the cat. Such is my thesis, that the licensing of weapons is subversive of liberty and self-defeating in its pious purpose"

    -Robert A Heinlein on Gun Control

  4. #24
    MODus Operandi
    Roadie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbhausen View Post
    If you don’t like three rules, how about 10? NSSF has “10 commandments” and number one is the same as NRAs number one: keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction always:

    https://www.nssf.org/safety/rules-firearms-safety/

    Jeff Cooper’s rule number one about pretending all guns are always loaded is outdated and gives people an excuse to treat guns differently when they “think” they’re not loaded.

    For anyone who sick of this argument, I really don’t care. I’m going to keep pushing this every time the subject comes up. Put me on ignore if you must.
    If you ALWAYS treat guns as loaded, when would there every be a chance to "treat guns differently"?

    "Criminals are never materially handicapped by such rules; the only effect is to disarm the peaceful citizen and put him fully at the mercy of the lawless. Such rules look very pretty on paper;
    in practice they are as foolish and footless as the attempt of the mice to bell the cat. Such is my thesis, that the licensing of weapons is subversive of liberty and self-defeating in its pious purpose"

    -Robert A Heinlein on Gun Control

  5. #25
    Sharpshooter Clay Pigeon's Avatar

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    Want to have a lesson in don'ts, go shooting at Elwood CC on any weekend it gets even better the weeks before deer season.
    "Too much agreement kills a chat." ~Eldridge Cleaver

  6. #26
    Grandmaster Mark 1911's Avatar

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    One of my favorite ranges in the area is the one at Winamac. They monitor the range without be overly intrusive, and it is very nicely maintained.

    On one occasion a buddy and I were shooting handguns at the 25 yard range. There was an elderly couple next to us, appeared to be married. He looked like he was "teaching" her how to shoot a handgun, but he wasn't giving much instruction, more like watching and saying very little. She was shooting a large frame .357 magnum revolver. Every time she would take a shot, she would keep her finger on the trigger, and basically sweep everything around her, the roof above the benches, the concrete pad, her husband, and I noticed her come pretty close to sweeping my buddy and I who were at the next bench. So I grabbed by buddies arm and the two of us very conspicuously back up several yards behind them, but they didn't get the hint. So we packed it up and left. Luckily, I haven't seen very much of that kind of poor gun handling at Winamac. Typically it's a pleasant experience. But that time sucked.
    Last edited by Mark 1911; 1 Week Ago at 11:12.
    Man is Not Free Unless Government is Limited - Ronald Reagan


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  7. #27
    Master cbhausen's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadie View Post
    If you ALWAYS treat guns as loaded, when would there every be a chance to "treat guns differently"?
    I'll let this curve ball hang over the plate for awhile to see who comes to bat...
    Endowment Member, National Rifle Association; Member, Gun Owners of America; Member, Second Amendment Foundation; Member, Marion County Fish and Game Association; Member, Revere's Riders; Rifleman, Project Appleseed; Private Pilot, Airplane, Single-Engine Land; Snob, Forum Settings

  8. #28
    ATM
    ATM is offline
    will argue for sammiches. ATM's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbhausen View Post
    I'll let this curve ball hang over the plate for awhile to see who comes to bat...
    Yeah, that's some low hanging fruit.

    I mean, the third step of safe gun handling is to unload the gun (if you don't want it loaded and ready for use). Loaded status isn't even a factor to consider in adhering to the first two steps.

    Treating guns "as if they're loaded" doesn't really make any sense unless a different "unloaded way" of treating guns is assumed. Honestly, I don't care much how people treat their guns, only that they handle them safely.


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    Say no to drugs. Say yes to bacon!

  9. #29
    Marksman ol' Huff's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATM View Post
    Yeah, that's some low hanging fruit.

    I mean, the third step of safe gun handling is to unload the gun (if you don't want it loaded and ready for use). Loaded status isn't even a factor to consider in adhering to the first two steps.

    Treating guns "as if they're loaded" doesn't really make any sense unless a different "unloaded way" of treating guns is assumed. Honestly, I don't care much how people treat their guns, only that they handle them safely.

    Couple weeks ago I was headspacing a rifle with a draw reamer. In doing so I had to place my hand in front of the muzzle to turn the mandrel. It was only for a minute and I was in a safe environment. Who's rule did I break? It was a gun. It was unloaded. If I treat it as a loaded gun I never would have put my hand in front of the muzzle or inserted the reaming cutter. Can I follow Cooper's rule in that instance or is it a methaphor that isn't always in practical appliance?
    This ain't Sparta, its 'Murica.

  10. #30
    Plinker Trapper Jim's Avatar

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    Professional gunsmithy are allowed some exceptions... key word professional.
    "See you on the Range"

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