Share your observations of poor gunhandling.

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  • Trapper Jim

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    In this world of reviews and all, there is something that I do not see brought up much in the industry today. We all know how important situational awareness is and we can discover things by using the same awareness in the released videos of training negligence. Some manufacturers, marketing majors, instructors and media have been impetuous in releasing owner manuals, advertising, training modules and reports in the shooting industry. For instance, in 2018 a very popular self made cable television program highlighting a very well known instructor at a very high profile corporate backed range in Texas released the video segment showing careless gun handling in sweeping himself and the students and the cameraman with a real gun. I tried to reach the sponsor on this matter and they ignored me. Casual gun handling is not okay in any venue let alone a promotional video. Some trainers use plastic models of guns and I believe it can promote carelessness just like “don’t worry it isn’t loaded” so it must be okay to break rule #2.Hell, I try not even point my finger at anyone unless I want to intimidate them let alone with a gun, gun frame, or plastic gun prop. But that’s me. I have seen owner manuals that have the right words in them but the drawings or photos lead to the approval of careless gun handling. A few years back the front page of a local newspaper showed the mayor showcasing a recovered machine gun and had it clearly pointing at some ones head. Magazines have had many print ads breaking some gun handling rules as well. Rule #3 gets violated in many videos and on a professional level as well. We all know news reporters can not even get the words right in giving us a story. Today I watched released footage of the Shot Show linked elsewhere in this forum that shows merchants showcasing their product and they clearly need some professional instruction. So how do we get responsible news stories, advertising, promotional videos? We have come a long way but we have miles to go before we sleep. I try to reach out and correct this misuse when I see it. Did you mean magazines?
     
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    justacog

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    What about all the 180 and even 360 breaks in this video among a crowd of spectators if all guns can only be treated as loaded at any time?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbs-2PgiMf8
    How many kids ran home, grabbed their Ruger 10/22 and tried the same stuff without oversight?

    I would think that for something like Shot Show, eventually the environment itself would have to be declared a "safe area" for the purpose of manipulation of fire arms.
    From the Shot Show exhibitor FAQ:
    NO personal firearms or ammunition allowed. Only firearms on display by exhibitors whose firing pins have been removed (and have been inspected by SHOT Show Safety Advisors) will be permitted at the SHOT Show.

    It isn't my intention to be flippant about the matter. Given that kids and now be suspended for half-eaten pop-tarts and t-shirts with gun shapes, there needs to be some reflection on how far is too far before people start wrenching on the regulatory screws of societal condemnation.
     

    Coach

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    Finding an instance of poor gun handling is not hard. Normally going to the range and finding someone else there is enough. In teaching classes gunning up and preparing to go home is the most dangerous time of class. I am amazed at how many people carry their gun to class in a box then box it back up to go home. Even from a defensive pistol class. There was a time when I was amazed by the people who cannot follow directions. For example do not handle guns behind the firing line. " I just said do not handle guns behind the firing line." "It is not loaded." " I did not say do not handle loaded guns behind the firing line."
     

    AdventureTeamJoe

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    I need only look as far as my father-in-law. A lover of "real guns" made of steel and wood....."no polymer, striker fired BS for me!" An avid shooter. I always wondered why he hated ranges with RSO's until I saw him handle my firearms. Has me ducking for cover while sweeping everybody in the room with his finger in the trigger guard.
     

    bwframe

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    There are a lot of "professionals" out there that are downright scary.

    Happily, safety has become a thing now days. A few years back there were INGOers, claiming to be instructors, that couldn't possibly follow the four rules because; "How are you gonna show your buddies your guns without pointing them at each other?" :n00b:
     

    MCgrease08

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    I need only look as far as my father-in-law. A lover of "real guns" made of steel and wood....."no polymer, striker fired BS for me!" An avid shooter. I always wondered why he hated ranges with RSO's until I saw him handle my firearms. Has me ducking for cover while sweeping everybody in the room with his finger in the trigger guard.

    A few of years ago we were having a birthday party for my daughter and all of the kids and moms were downstairs. Some of us men folk went upstairs to the second floor to get out of the way, shoot the bull.

    My brother-in-law knows I'm a gun guy and decides he wants to show me his new carry piece. Without warning he pulls it from his holster and points it right at my belly. I'm not sure if he was trying to hand it to me or what, but I basically slapped his arm away and told him to point it in a safe direction. He then proceeds to point it down at the floor failing to account for the dozens of toddlers and mommies in the room directly below us. :facepalm:

    After that I told him he was never allowed to unholster in my house again for any reason. To this day he still doesn't understand why I got so upset.
     
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    wtburnette

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    I was at Point Blank shooting when I noticed an older gent next to me shooting his 1911. I commented that it looked nice and asked what it was, as I couldn't tell. He picks it up and comes out of the stall with it, pointing it in every direction to show me, instead of just telling me. Asked me if I wanted to handle it and gave me a funny look when I replied "only if I could take it into my stall". For those who don't go to Point Blank, they don't allow guns outside of the stall to not be in a bag or holster, plus he was sweeping me and pretty much everyone else in the range while showing it off. At least now if I talk to someone in the next stall about their gun and they start to pick it up, I know to quickly say to leave it in the stall and just tell me about it... :n00b:
     

    Trapper Jim

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    Or how about the time I asked to see one of the small pistols with a laser on it. The clerk at this big box store takes it out and was demonstrating the laser by pointing it at my chest along with other people in the store to show how well the laser showed up on dark sweaters and such. And yes his finger was not on the frame but he at least checked to see that …..it ain't loaded. Training....who needs stinking training?......
     

    AdventureTeamJoe

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    My brother-in-law knows I'm a gun guy and decides he wants to show me his new carry piece. Without warning he pulls it from his holster and points it right at my belly. I'm not sure if he was trying to hand it to me or what, but I basically slapped his arm away and told him to point it in a safe direction. He then proceeds to point it down at the floor failing to account for the dozens of toddlers and mommies in the room directly below us. :facepalm:

    After that I told him he was never allowed to unholster in my house again for any reason. To this day he still doesn't understand why I got so upset.

    You win! Ugh, I mean.....lose! I'd need a change of shorts if the FIL actually pointed his carry piece at me (like he did the homeless dude looking for spare change outside of the Murat).
     

    doddg

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    That's not how you "overreact", it's your refusal to consider carrying a round in the chamber.

    1. You are right, and I know that reflects on my deficiencies, but that is where I am.
    2. I will not keep a round in the chamber in my Sig 365, and I have an appropriate holster, since there is not a safety.
    3. If I like the size of the P-10, I will replace it with the P-07 (has safety/decocker), just like I will sell my Sig 365 and get one with a safety when it is out.
    4. Perhaps there is even a Ruger or Smith that would qualify with 15ish rounds and a more petite size with a safety, I just haven't gone down that road yet b/c I don't need be in any hurry b/c I have the Sig 365.
     

    cbhausen

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    If you don’t like three rules, how about 10? NSSF has “10 commandments” and number one is the same as NRAs number one: keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction always:

    https://www.nssf.org/safety/rules-firearms-safety/

    Jeff Cooper’s rule number one about pretending all guns are always loaded is outdated and gives people an excuse to treat guns differently when they “think” they’re not loaded.

    For anyone who sick of this argument, I really don’t care. I’m going to keep pushing this every time the subject comes up. Put me on ignore if you must.
     
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