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  1. #41
    Expert dudley0's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post
    There is no reason to set up a dedicated home defense rifle at 50 yards.
    But what if you have a really big open house?

    I have my laser and RDS sighted in for close range. I did have the laser (green) set up for really close, in the house range. I changed it out with a laser/light combo and have it set to the red dot right now.

    Makes me think that having two different POI on the same gun might give too much margin for error.

  2. #42
    Master Jackson's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post
    This thread has given me pause as to how I have set up my home defense AR's.
    25 yard matching red dot to laser using a good bore laser and then verifying on paper at the same distance.
    Last night I went out and tested the the theory. Tonight I am going to tighten up on my distance's. I will do this inside the house as that is most likely where these will get the intended use. This will greatly reduce the effects being discussed in this thread.
    There is no reason to set up a dedicated home defense rifle at 50 yards.
    There will be some distance at which you cannot overcome the sight-over-bore alignment problem by adjusting the sights.


  3. #43
    Marksman longbeard's Avatar

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    I'm a guy who shoots a lot of AR9 in USPSA. The holdover is a challenge for sure. As far as "solutions", any scenario can be invalidated and render the technique inadequate. That's just a black hole of "what if, but what about this".

    Personally, I like the article and the technique and have played with it myself goofing around. I think it's a valid technique for certain situations. Anyone can figure out a holdover and learn them. However, judging how far you are from POI and what it needs to be while "under stress" is a whole other story. Any visual reference that helps that certainly can't hurt if you are trained with it.

    My biggest concern is generally hitting a small target close or another issue I don't see mentioned. You're shooting through a window and POI on the target isn't really a concern until you pull the trigger and realize the muzzle was below the window.

    For gaming, I have a small laser mounted at 3 O'Clock on my rail. It gives me a visual reference where my muzzle is on the vertical plane so I can avoid shooting through stuff if it's tight. It also allows me to roll the gun and use it like an offset device. I also use a 65 moa ring on my optic and I can use the top or the bottom of it. All similar to what rhino mentioned.

    PS.
    Evidently, my laser sucks because past about 7 yards in good daylight it's real dim.

  4. #44
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by dudley0 View Post
    But what if you have a really big open house?

    I have my laser and RDS sighted in for close range. I did have the laser (green) set up for really close, in the house range. I changed it out with a laser/light combo and have it set to the red dot right now.

    Makes me think that having two different POI on the same gun might give too much margin for error.
    There are 2 HD duty AR's. That is the sole purpose for these 2 guns. Tonight I set them both up for Inside the house/possible outside in the yard (hope never to go outside)
    There are other AR's for more distance. They are set up accordingly.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

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  5. #45
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by longbeard View Post
    I'm a guy who shoots a lot of AR9 in USPSA. The holdover is a challenge for sure. As far as "solutions", any scenario can be invalidated and render the technique inadequate. That's just a black hole of "what if, but what about this".

    Personally, I like the article and the technique and have played with it myself goofing around. I think it's a valid technique for certain situations. Anyone can figure out a holdover and learn them. However, judging how far you are from POI and what it needs to be while "under stress" is a whole other story. Any visual reference that helps that certainly can't hurt if you are trained with it.

    My biggest concern is generally hitting a small target close or another issue I don't see mentioned. You're shooting through a window and POI on the target isn't really a concern until you pull the trigger and realize the muzzle was below the window.

    For gaming, I have a small laser mounted at 3 O'Clock on my rail. It gives me a visual reference where my muzzle is on the vertical plane so I can avoid shooting through stuff if it's tight. It also allows me to roll the gun and use it like an offset device. I also use a 65 moa ring on my optic and I can use the top or the bottom of it. All similar to what rhino mentioned.

    PS.
    Evidently, my laser sucks because past about 7 yards in good daylight it's real dim.
    Green light lasers are stronger.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

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  6. #46
    Grandmaster

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    Seems like a lot of electronics to depend on to stay working and zero'ed through thick and thin.

    How often do you verify working and zero'ed?

    Why wouldn't you just verify and train to use a 2" offset inside and at inside distance? Hostage shot is top of attacker's head to middle forehead?

    Outside distances hold dead on?
    -----------------------------------------------
    Done, done, and Iím on to the next one...
    -----------------------------------------------

  7. #47
    Somewhat Purple-ish rhino's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by longbeard View Post
    My biggest concern is generally hitting a small target close or another issue I don't see mentioned. You're shooting through a window and POI on the target isn't really a concern until you pull the trigger and realize the muzzle was below the window.
    That's similar to when you shoot over the top of cover or concealment. One way to ensure that your muzzle is above the obstruction, which also allows you to remain lower relative to the obstruction, is to roll the rifle on its side. You can still use your regular sighting system (although it takes a little practice to use conventional iron sights that way), but it's natural if you have irons, a dot, or a laser on offset mounts that you would use that way anyway (or close to it).



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  8. #48
    Somewhat Purple-ish rhino's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    There will be some distance at which you cannot overcome the sight-over-bore alignment problem by adjusting the sights.
    This needs repeating several times during these conversations.



    "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State."
    INDIANA CONSTITUTION
    Article 1 - Bill of Rights - Section 32

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    To prevail you must ACT!

  9. #49
    Marksman longbeard's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post
    Green light lasers are stronger.
    It's green

  10. #50
    Marksman longbeard's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino View Post
    That's similar to when you shoot over the top of cover or concealment. One way to ensure that your muzzle is above the obstruction, which also allows you to remain lower relative to the obstruction, is to roll the rifle on its side. You can still use your regular sighting system (although it takes a little practice to use conventional iron sights that way), but it's natural if you have irons, a dot, or a laser on offset mounts that you would use that way anyway (or close to it).
    I have an offset dot for that.

    Edit: Which again has a holdover. Thus, the laser @ 3 o' clock
    Last edited by longbeard; 07-22-2019 at 07:38.

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