Glock malfunctions during fight

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  • Brad69

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    Not trying to bash Glocks IME they tend to work ok, I just wanted to illustrate that regardless of platform malfunction drills need to be priority when training. This malfunction may be user induced by hitting the mag release or improperly seated mag?
    I understand the training limitations on a square range, but moving while clearing a malfunction or reloading is a must. Standing in the wide open while getting shot at is not a smart move.

    If tap,rack,bang doesn’t work what do you do?


    NOPD Video

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=5yAoCWPsBJs
     

    Coach

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    Guns break. Guns malfunction. Skill to reduce malfunctions is essential. The ability to drop the gun on the ground and draw a second would be a nice option.

    Three cops one bad guy. Reloads were necessary. The popular culture on ingo says this won't happen. But it did.
     

    Hop

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    Yikes!

    That poor truck took rounds into the hood! From the cops I think. Look at the angle of the hole in the hood.
     

    dudley0

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    The body cam threw off the angle for me on the cop that did the reload behind the truck. It looked like he had a single stack mag. Had to go back and look again. I thought it was odd, but it was just the fisheye type lens.
     

    rhino

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    Guns break. Guns malfunction. Skill to reduce malfunctions is essential. The ability to drop the gun on the ground and draw a second would be a nice option.

    Three cops one bad guy. Reloads were necessary. The popular culture on ingo says this won't happen. But it did.

    Hush, you!
     

    NHT3

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    Guns break. Guns malfunction. Skill to reduce malfunctions is essential. The ability to drop the gun on the ground and draw a second would be a nice option.

    Three cops one bad guy. Reloads were necessary. The popular culture on ingo says this won't happen. But it did.

    Imagine that, real engagement at more than 3 yards, involved more than 3 shots and lasted more than 3 seconds. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I would like to know the reason behind the malfunction but it didn't appear to be the gun since he managed to reload it after finally clearing. My guess would be ammo.

    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
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    88E30M50

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    Guns break. Guns malfunction. Skill to reduce malfunctions is essential. The ability to drop the gun on the ground and draw a second would be a nice option.

    Three cops one bad guy. Reloads were necessary. The popular culture on ingo says this won't happen. But it did.

    The discussion on capacity on INGO is about civilian carry, not LEO, gangbanger, Military or any other activity that people seek situations out. I don’t think that anyone ever mentioned that because non-LE shootings tend to end in 3 rounds that LE should not need a lot of spare ammo and backup guns.
     

    Coach

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    The discussion on capacity on INGO is about civilian carry, not LEO, gangbanger, Military or any other activity that people seek situations out. I don’t think that anyone ever mentioned that because non-LE shootings tend to end in 3 rounds that LE should not need a lot of spare ammo and backup guns.
    If three cops cannot stop one guy with 3 rounds why is the average Joe expect to do so?

    Better shot than the cop perhaps????

    Or maybe they are busy getting their family to safety.
     

    88E30M50

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    The dynamic is very different. Generally, in a non-LEO shooting that’s not personally motivated, the attacker has the ability to disengage at will. If it’s a robbery, they are most likely not looking for an extended engagement and will end it as quickly as possible.

    In LEO situations, they know that they cannot simply disengage at will with nobody following them. There exists the possibility of someone who is not a cop or gang banger finding themselves in an extended fight but the probabilities are extremely small.

    But, we live in a free state and each of us gets to determine the point where we feel that we have comfortably addressed the level of risk we face. For many, it’s a J frame with 5 rounds of 38 Special, for others, it’s a full size gun with 2 or 3 spare mags and maybe a BUG. Neither is right, neither is wrong. It’s all about what we feel needs done to mitigate the level of risk we feel exists at a particular moment.
     

    rhino

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    The dynamic is very different. Generally, in a non-LEO shooting that’s not personally motivated, the attacker has the ability to disengage at will. If it’s a robbery, they are most likely not looking for an extended engagement and will end it as quickly as possible.

    In LEO situations, they know that they cannot simply disengage at will with nobody following them. There exists the possibility of someone who is not a cop or gang banger finding themselves in an extended fight but the probabilities are extremely small.

    But, we live in a free state and each of us gets to determine the point where we feel that we have comfortably addressed the level of risk we face. For many, it’s a J frame with 5 rounds of 38 Special, for others, it’s a full size gun with 2 or 3 spare mags and maybe a BUG. Neither is right, neither is wrong. It’s all about what we feel needs done to mitigate the level of risk we feel exists at a particular moment.

    The problem is that the most common justification presented for carrying only a j-frame is the "If I can't do it in 5 rounds," nonsense. It's very similar to people who claim that "you'll never see your sights" in a defensive shooting. Well, if you choose to believe that ahead of time and never train to work around it, it's going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy that isn't necessary.

    If someone chooses to carry a 5-shot gun, they need to accept the limitations of their choice and not try to convince themselves and others that it's going to be adequate for anything they might encounter. It's the same as those who carry more substantial tools need to accept that their choice requires that they're going to carry more weight and it's not going to be as comfortable as an airweight j-frame.

    Accepting that you're as well armed as you choose to be is not the same thing as believing that you're as well armed as you might need to be.
     

    Coach

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    The dynamic is very different. Generally, in a non-LEO shooting that’s not personally motivated, the attacker has the ability to disengage at will. If it’s a robbery, they are most likely not looking for an extended engagement and will end it as quickly as possible.

    In LEO situations, they know that they cannot simply disengage at will with nobody following them. There exists the possibility of someone who is not a cop or gang banger finding themselves in an extended fight but the probabilities are extremely small.

    But, we live in a free state and each of us gets to determine the point where we feel that we have comfortably addressed the level of risk we face. For many, it’s a J frame with 5 rounds of 38 Special, for others, it’s a full size gun with 2 or 3 spare mags and maybe a BUG. Neither is right, neither is wrong. It’s all about what we feel needs done to mitigate the level of risk we feel exists at a particular moment.

    No the dynamic is the same once the shooting begins. Kill or be killed. The fight is over when you are out of ammo.
     

    Expat

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    Imagine that, real engagement at more than 3 yards, involved more than 3 shots and lasted more than 3 seconds. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I would like to know the reason behind the malfunction but it didn't appear to be the gun since he managed to reload it after finally clearing. My guess would be ammo.
    But I have read that from top internet experts. This is a conundrum wrapped in a riddle.
     

    88E30M50

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    No the dynamic is the same once the shooting begins. Kill or be killed. The fight is over when you are out of ammo.

    I think that you are too wrapped up in the possibility and have forgotten the probability. I’m quite secure in my ability to defend myself with a Glock 23 on the hip and no spares while watching a movie at home. While I might add a pair of spare magazines to head into the city, I’m just not going to carry that load out on the couch of my family room.

    For you guys that carry that full load out whenever you are awake, I commend you. I can’t do that. I’ll load up when heading to the city with a pair of spare mags but feel Ok with only a single spare when grocery shopping. I carry from the time I’m awake until the time I turn the light out. That’s enough for me when I’m at home, but that’s just me. If you are doing the full load out while relaxing at home, fantastic. I can’t do that without dealing with back issues. Just can’t and don’t feel bad for not doing it.
     

    Coach

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    I think that you are too wrapped up in the possibility and have forgotten the probability. I’m quite secure in my ability to defend myself with a Glock 23 on the hip and no spares while watching a movie at home. While I might add a pair of spare magazines to head into the city, I’m just not going to carry that load out on the couch of my family room.

    For you guys that carry that full load out whenever you are awake, I commend you. I can’t do that. I’ll load up when heading to the city with a pair of spare mags but feel Ok with only a single spare when grocery shopping. I carry from the time I’m awake until the time I turn the light out. That’s enough for me when I’m at home, but that’s just me. If you are doing the full load out while relaxing at home, fantastic. I can’t do that without dealing with back issues. Just can’t and don’t feel bad for not doing it.

    The stakes are life and death. I am not concerned about the odds or the probability of defending myself. I am concerned about the stakes. The video nor anyone here (other than you) is talking about sitting on the couch at home. If a person finds themselves in a fight for their lives it ends when the ammo is gone. If you are not preparing for the worst case scenario why bother carrying. If a J frame is enough why bother in the first place? Those that just carry a J frame are optimists.
     
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