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  1. #21
    Marksman Trapper Jim's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by dudley0 View Post
    I doubt that anyone in one of Gabe's classes is a newbie. I just don't see him teaching a 101 basics class. Could be wrong, but just don't see it.
    Define newbie. Just because someone attends a high profile training Class or shoots in matches does not always provide that they have learned or practiced to the point that they can even pass a simple evaluation. From their choice in equipment, self sweeping mistakes, finger issues, scores and temperament I have seen many that should give back the T-shirt.


    Please understand that I am not talking about the curriculum or training talent but the absorption and commitment of the student.
    Last edited by Trapper Jim; 09-11-2019 at 19:06.
    "See you on the Range"

  2. #22
    Expert dudley0's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapper Jim View Post
    Define newbie. Just because someone attends a high profile training Class or shoots in matches does not always provide that they have learned or practiced to the point that they can even pass a simple evaluation. From their choice in equipment, self sweeping mistakes, finger issues, scores and temperament I have seen many that should give back the T-shirt.


    Please understand that I am not talking about the curriculum or training talent but the absorption and commitment of the student.
    Thinking about it a little more I will agree with you. Hell I could have taken that class. I wouldn't because I know I am not ready for a class at that level. But I guess I do know some people that would throw money at anything just to say they did it, even though they aren't ready.

  3. #23
    Marksman Trapper Jim's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by dudley0 View Post
    Thinking about it a little more I will agree with you. Hell I could have taken that class. I wouldn't because I know I am not ready for a class at that level. But I guess I do know some people that would throw money at anything just to say they did it, even though they aren't ready.
    Exactly. Many of today’s Casual Gun Owners Bypass mastering strong fundamentals and go right to the End game as to what they want to use the gun for. Build a strong foundation first and then go for the high dollar T-shirt if you want to. There are many great facilitators right here in Indiana that a CGO can spend less money and more time with which will save you thousands of dollars in wasted ammo, frustration and time along with eliminating the bad habits before they start. The only difference between a CGO and PGO is the level of commitment to the work required..
    "See you on the Range"

  4. #24
    Grandmaster cedartop's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapper Jim View Post
    Exactly. Many of today’s Casual Gun Owners Bypass mastering strong fundamentals and go right to the End game as to what they want to use the gun for. Build a strong foundation first and then go for the high dollar T-shirt if you want to. There are many great facilitators right here in Indiana that a CGO can spend less money and more time with which will save you thousands of dollars in wasted ammo, frustration and time along with eliminating the bad habits before they start. The only difference between a CGO and PGO is the level of commitment to the work required..

    Most of what you have said in this thread is not noteworthy, but you are correct with that statement. Trainers everywhere have been seeing more and more of this. A big part of the problem is that many instructors do not want to teach basics, and other just suck and shouldn't be teaching at all.
    Michael Swisher

  5. #25
    jrm
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    I have reached out to Gabe a few times trying to get him on my range for a class. I have not gotten any response. If anyone has a contact for him I will host him in 2020.

  6. #26
    Marksman nad63's Avatar

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    Thanks OP nice AAR. I see he’ll be in IL & KY (each about 3 1/2 hrs from Indy for folks Interested).

  7. #27
    Master Jackson's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by nad63 View Post
    Thanks OP nice AAR. I see he’ll be in IL & KY (each about 3 1/2 hrs from Indy for folks Interested).
    Someone may be working on hosting him closer next year.


  8. #28
    Master Jackson's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by cedartop View Post
    Most of what you have said in this thread is not noteworthy, but you are correct with that statement. Trainers everywhere have been seeing more and more of this. A big part of the problem is that many instructors do not want to teach basics, and other just suck and shouldn't be teaching at all.

    Interesting. I assume this is due to a combination of basic classes not bringing as much revenue per seat, and instructors wanting to feel cool.

    I think most instructors are barely qualified to teach much more than the basics. Most probably don't even do that well. A small subset are actually qualified to start on higher-level technical shooting skills. Very few are truly qualified to teach tactics and whatnot.

    Maybe my bar is high, but I'm referring to the whole population of people who market themselves as instructors of any kind.


  9. #29
    Somewhat Purple-ish rhino's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    Someone may be working on hosting him closer next year.
    Would that someone's initials be J-A-S-O-N?



    "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State."
    INDIANA CONSTITUTION
    Article 1 - Bill of Rights - Section 32

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    To prevail you must ACT!

  10. #30
    Marksman Trapper Jim's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    Interesting. I assume this is due to a combination of basic classes not bringing as much revenue per seat, and instructors wanting to feel cool.

    I think most instructors are barely qualified to teach much more than the basics. Most probably don't even do that well. A small subset are actually qualified to start on higher-level technical shooting skills. Very few are truly qualified to teach tactics and whatnot.

    Maybe my bar is high, but I'm referring to the whole population of people who market themselves as instructors of any kind.
    I have seen some poor facilitators in my time. I just watched one recently where the instructor ran through the course (5 yards from the berm) to show off for the newbies. I guess he felt better about charging them money to watch him do what they can't do.

    I watched one earlier this year point a gun at himself and the students. When i asked him about it, he said it wasn't loaded.

    I watched on last fall that did all classroom and no live fire.

    Yes there is good and bad in all people but the secret isn't how many titles hes won or how many beats hes patrolled but does he offer free follow up visits and not charge an arm and a leg and offer one on one private sessions.?

    "See you on the Range"

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