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  1. #11
    Grandmaster Coach's Avatar

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    My first response before reading anything was that this was posted by folks providing hand to hand training of some type. The second article made a great point. There is always a superior opponent out there. No matter the level of training and experience someone can kick their ass. I have found that to be true a few times and it is very deflating to say the least.

    I think martial arts training for most people is a complete waste of time and money. Perhaps for most people carrying a gun is as well. Have to go to school.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

    abright@ccrtc.com


  2. #12
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    My first response before reading anything was that this was posted by folks providing hand to hand training of some type. The second article made a great point. There is always a superior opponent out there. No matter the level of training and experience someone can kick their ass. I have found that to be true a few times and it is very deflating to say the least.

    I think martial arts training for most people is a complete waste of time and money. Perhaps for most people carrying a gun is as well. Have to go to school.
    Good solid points as always.

    Thing is we see LEO getting beat down in these videos all too often. Sure these are regular guys but really, they are just lacking in SA or so it seems. Are we so PC these days that these things happen all to often. I understand everyday guy getting this. But everyday guy does not have a confrontational job where in that everyday they are confronting an unknown or even a known and still let things get sideways. Just a curious observation.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

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  3. #13
    Master Jackson's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post

    I think martial arts training for most people is a complete waste of time and money. Perhaps for most people carrying a gun is as well. Have to go to school.
    Is it a waste of time because it isn't effective? As in, doesn't improve the outcome in a real fight?

    Or is it a waste of time because the commitment of time and money required to see the benefit is too great compared to the risk of needing it?


  4. #14
    Expert dudley0's Avatar

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    My pistol retention would suck, hugely. I conceal carry, IWB with no retention device. I carry on my right hip. One of the many problems I have is nearly no use of my left hand for combating. If I get into a situation where I had to grapple with someone and they were going for my gun I can only use my right hand to try and keep it holstered.

    I can ***** slap someone with my left, but that is about it. So I would just be taking the hits, hoping the BG gets tired or leaves a big opening for me to respond. Once on the ground all I can do is roll onto the gun and hope my fat ass keeps him away from it.

    I am not fast, have bad knees, usually a sore back and am generally slow. Not that I would make the perfect target, but I realize my short comings. I try like hell to stay out of areas where I feel bad could happen. I watch what is going on around me and hope for the best.

  5. #15
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by dudley0 View Post
    My pistol retention would suck, hugely. I conceal carry, IWB with no retention device. I carry on my right hip. One of the many problems I have is nearly no use of my left hand for combating. If I get into a situation where I had to grapple with someone and they were going for my gun I can only use my right hand to try and keep it holstered.

    I can ***** slap someone with my left, but that is about it. So I would just be taking the hits, hoping the BG gets tired or leaves a big opening for me to respond. Once on the ground all I can do is roll onto the gun and hope my fat ass keeps him away from it.

    I am not fast, have bad knees, usually a sore back and am generally slow. Not that I would make the perfect target, but I realize my short comings. I try like hell to stay out of areas where I feel bad could happen. I watch what is going on around me and hope for the best.
    In this all you have is SA and being capable of keeping a safe distance. We can all get attacked from a blind spot in any situation. But when your spidey senses are on full tingle try and be aware.

    Martial arts training from a good instructor does have serious benefits if only to keep you fluid in your movements and responses. Like shooting there is a lot of muscle memory involved. When something is deeply ingrained we do not have to waste a lot of precious moments "Thinking" about what to do. We just do it.

    But dedication comes into play. Our lives fill up with work and family. Hobbys and such. It is not an inexpensive path to take training. Trainers are not doing it for the practice.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    Is it a waste of time because it isn't effective? As in, doesn't improve the outcome in a real fight?

    Or is it a waste of time because the commitment of time and money required to see the benefit is too great compared to the risk of needing it?
    For most people it is not going to be effective. No weight classes, no separation by ability. Mass over comes so much training and skill. If someone smokes they are screwed. You have to stay physically fit. And someone will kick your ass. Plus mindset has to be there.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

    abright@ccrtc.com


  7. #17
    Master GNRPowdeR's Avatar

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    I've met a few officers who have expressed their concerns about being labeled as "too aggressive". My opinion is that when someone brings stupidity to them, it is their job to stop / quell said stupidity. Once stupidity has stopped, reduce levels of force as needed...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Givens View Post
    Objective standards are meaningless if people are not held to them.
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36 NIV

  8. #18
    Grandmaster Coach's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNRPowdeR View Post
    I've met a few officers who have expressed their concerns about being labeled as "too aggressive". My opinion is that when someone brings stupidity to them, it is their job to stop / quell said stupidity. Once stupidity has stopped, reduce levels of force as needed...
    Yes. I think the police are at a disadvantage and are training to be reserved in their responses. It gets officers hurt and killed at times and that is wrong.

    I agree with your position. But not everyone agrees with us.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

    abright@ccrtc.com


  9. #19
    Somewhat Purple-ish rhino's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    I think it's a common attitude. I also just wanted to prompt some response I guess. :-P

    Ah! Gee, Jackson as the Devil's Advocate. I am shocked. This how my face looks when I am shocked.



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  10. #20
    Marksman Trapper Jim's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    For most people it is not going to be effective. No weight classes, no separation by ability. Mass over comes so much training and skill. If someone smokes they are screwed. You have to stay physically fit. And someone will kick your ass. Plus mindset has to be there.

    If you are a king fu fighter with a gun you do get to move around a lot.🥴

    "See you on the Range"

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