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  1. #21
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNRPowdeR View Post
    I've met a few officers who have expressed their concerns about being labeled as "too aggressive".
    And often for good reason. You respond appropriately and you're a dinosaur that needs to be investigated. Get the brass nervous about you being a liability and you're either off the streets or out of a job at many places.
    L'otters are not afraid.

  2. #22
    Master GNRPowdeR's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    And often for good reason. You respond appropriately and you're a dinosaur that needs to be investigated. Get the brass nervous about you being a liability and you're either off the streets or out of a job at many places.
    I've had similar concerns stated by others...

    Certainly not a supporter of actual JBTs, but I'm even less a supporter of Thugs and Bullies. Neither group should believe they're untouchable...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Givens View Post
    Objective standards are meaningless if people are not held to them.
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36 NIV

  3. #23
    Plinker

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    Interesting points in both links.

    If you get in a scrap, it is better to have some training on how to handle yourself than to not have that training. Does it guarantee that you will win the fight? Of course not. Death and taxes are about the only guarantees in life.

  4. #24
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

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    So I can think of several cases I've worked where gun retention skills may have changed the outcome, but you can't say for sure. I'd say you are increasing your odds if you know how to fight, though, particularly if faced with the not-yet-lethal-force encounter you can't evade. The technical skills gained aren't the only benefits, though. Training aggression, gaining confidence/reducing fear, learning to deal with the adrenaline dump, all those things can matter.

    Sure, there's always someone bigger and better. Same thing for gun fighting. Someone's better than you and anyone can be luckier than you.
    L'otters are not afraid.

  5. #25
    Grandmaster
    Coach's Avatar

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    Bring gender into the mix and fighting skills matter even less.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

    abright@ccrtc.com


  6. #26
    Grandmaster rhino's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    Bring gender into the mix and fighting skills matter even less.
    Which genders? One and two, or one through seventy-one?



    "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State."
    INDIANA CONSTITUTION
    Article 1 - Bill of Rights - Section 32

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    To prevail you must ACT!

  7. #27
    Grandmaster Sigblitz's Avatar

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    Martial arts is effective. Part of it is forcing the reaction you want. They twist your hand up, reaction is to push back. You bring your arm in and snap their wrist when they're trying to catch up. Every action has a reaction. You react in a way that uses their momentum against them. There are many other useful mechanics such as how to land a knockout punch, how to swing your hips and where and how to land your hand. It's trickery and knowledge. Just my

  8. #28
    Grandmaster Sigblitz's Avatar

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    .
    Last edited by Sigblitz; 09-14-2019 at 08:02.

  9. #29
    Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino View Post
    Which genders? One and two, or one through seventy-one?
    Does not matter. Real or make believe.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

    abright@ccrtc.com


  10. #30
    Grandmaster Denny347's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNRPowdeR View Post
    I've met a few officers who have expressed their concerns about being labeled as "too aggressive". My opinion is that when someone brings stupidity to them, it is their job to stop / quell said stupidity. Once stupidity has stopped, reduce levels of force as needed...
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    Yes. I think the police are at a disadvantage and are training to be reserved in their responses. It gets officers hurt and killed at times and that is wrong.

    I agree with your position. But not everyone agrees with us.
    As a UoF trainer I know that Nick Pollaro at ILEA doesn't teach to be reserved to the PD officers from around the state he's responsible to train. Neither do we. I don't know about ISP, I know their UoF trainers but not their curriculum. UoF uncertainty many times from a lack of confidence in one's own skill level. Most officers do no fight training own their own outside of what they were taught in the academy. With that comes uncertainty in their own skill and that translates to trepidation when dealing with the Admin. Because many times it's NOT the actual force being used that is the issue (regardless of the optics) it's the lack of clear explanation on WHY it was used in the reports. Confident use of force as well as clear explanation on why the force was necessary protect the officer from undue discipline. However, our biggest problem I see with UoF is our lack of articulation when it comes to documenting the WHY. That gets officers in trouble and that also leads to uncertainty.

    On the other side of fear lies freedom.

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