Dry Practice or Dry Handling

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  • Coach

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    Can dry handling and practice with firearms be safely done in a classroom setting?
     

    harleymac1

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    I think that if you have a policy in place where weapons are checked by a minimum of 3 people and that the room is set up in a manner that no weapons would “typically” point in the direction of any other student or instructor it would be ok. Another check is that all live ammo be checked in prior to allowing entrance into the classroom area.


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    cedartop

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    Can it be done? Not with 100% safety. There is always going to be an element of risk involved when you are dealing with deadly tools and people. This is why we chose to use blue guns and SIRTS. Can it be done to a reasonable level of safety? Yes, with strict protocol and the right instructor.

    I have been to classes that would make many on INGO apoplectic at the least and maybe soil themselves. Vigilant knows what I am talking about. Yet no one was injured in those classes. We have all seen other examples of classes that were seemingly done right yet people were injured or killed. (Sad to say but usually a LE officer involved in those)

    Personally I keep dry work with real guns done on the range and not pointing at each other. (Speaking for classes, of course I do dry practice at home following a strict safety protocol.)
     

    rhino

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    Can dry handling and practice with firearms be safely done in a classroom setting?

    Depends on the teacher and students combination. Some can handle, some cannot.

    I think blue gun and other inert replicas are the best way to go in most cases. If unknown people are going to be handling them, all of them need to be inspected by everyone in the room who cares to do so to verify to their satisfaction that they are not firearms.

    If firearms are to be used, then the room needs a wall that could reasonably be expected to stop something that happens due to negligence. In addition, I think those inert plastic barrel inserts that Blade-Tech used to sell would be ideal for helping manage the risks. There are similar alternatives that may or may not be available, but they will allow the slide to reciprocate and do not block the controls or the mag well. They just remove the entire barrel and replace it with a solid chunk of plastic.

    It should go without saying that never, ever does a gun get pointed at someone or something else important, even if it's believed to be "safe." They are not inert replicas and stupid can still happen.

    In force on force training (that is legitimate), everyone who is participating is searched by at least two people to ensure they don't have any potentially harmful objects. At the same time, it's a good practice to have at least one person who remains armed and vigilant, but who does not participate at all in the exercises.
     

    Coach

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    I spend considerable time preventing the handling of guns in the classroom.
     

    stoneytoney

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    The blue guns can be used for grip and sight alignment. But trigger manipulations are null and void. The SIRTS are ok but isn’t teaching students the “wall” of the trigger so when they go to live fire it might take even longer for them to understand that.

    They have these new lil gadgets called coolfires that I seen Mike Seeklander use on YouTube where you gas up the barrel with co2 and it reciprocates the slide. I think these would be very useful. In the classroom. The barrel is bright red so you know you’re operating a pistol without a chance of firing. I know some custom guns have colored barrels as well but I would say a teacher would know the difference instantly. $350 for each unit so I’m guessing some students would have to share a pistol or 2 so you might be in the classroom for quite a bit not including if you have a PowerPoint presentation and/or video to show.


    Or another option is officially licensed air soft pistols. You at least get the slide moving back... close to stock trigger without getting the real deal and you can use the BBs on some type of target that let the BB stick into it. So you won’t have to sweep them up

    If the class is big enough (conference room size?) to run a mini line (3-4 people) like an indoor range class I don’t see why not? In the class memo I would tell all students to have their pistols in a case. Or in their vehicle. Having replicas of real guns and actual real guns could get tricky
     
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    Tanfodude

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    Blue guns are limited in the types of gun (not cheap if purchasing multiple blue guns, plus blue guns are mostly glock, which has a different grip angle than most handguns). If the student has a firearm that is not made in blue gun, might be hard to adjust on gripping when switching to their own (firearm grip size and hand size varies). Dry firing to the actual gun the student owns has better learning carry over in being proficient to that firearm IMO.

    Like everyone said above, implementing the safety has to be really strict if actual firearms are to be used (the barrel plugs are a guarantee).
     
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    Trapper Jim

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    I guess that if we have to have lawn mowers with safety levers and gas cans that take 3 hands to dribble gas all over yourself, pill bottles that you can not get open, rev limiters on our cars, then I guess there is a need for blue guns in today’s society.
     

    JollyMon

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    I guess that if we have to have lawn mowers with safety levers and gas cans that take 3 hands to dribble gas all over yourself, pill bottles that you can not get open, rev limiters on our cars, then I guess there is a need for blue guns in today’s society.

    KayS1zg.jpg
     

    Coach

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    I do ever allow gun handling in the classroom portion of any class I am teaching. Guns stay in holsters, bags or where ever. No gun handling means no one gets shot.

    Sirt pistols or blue guns can be used as tools to allow topics such as grip and trigger control to make more sense.

    Hard to have a group in the classroom using cleared guns and not violate some of the four rules.
     

    Trapper Jim

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    I do ever allow gun handling in the classroom portion of any class I am teaching. Guns stay in holsters, bags or where ever. No gun handling means no one gets shot.

    Sirt pistols or blue guns can be used as tools to allow topics such as grip and trigger control to make more sense.

    Hard to have a group in the classroom using cleared guns and not violate some of the four rules.

    I instruct, lecture and demonstrate safe gun handling in a classroom or on the line with a real gun without breaking any of the rules...ever. After all, if we can’t do that how are we to expect the students to learn it? I have never owned a blue gun and don’t need one to teach. The exceptions are Special advanced modules and fighting segments especially when educating disarming an individual with substandard equipment. Then blue guns are the right tool however limited in a working action and as a reversal weapon.
     

    Coach

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    I instruct, lecture and demonstrate safe gun handling in a classroom or on the line with a real gun without breaking any of the rules...ever. After all, if we can’t do that how are we to expect the students to learn it? I have never owned a blue gun and don’t need one to teach. The exceptions are Special advanced modules and fighting segments especially when educating disarming an individual with substandard equipment. Then blue guns are the right tool however limited in a working action and as a reversal weapon.

    Dry practice on the line is fine.
    Multiple people in a classroom handling guns is difficult to pull off without someone getting swept.

    I have decided I will not handle guns in the classroom so that I am modeling what I expect of the students.

    I know of other instructors that handle guns in the room. Their decision. But students doing it has too many issues to do it safely.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Can it? Yes. Should it, especially in a mixed ability open enrollment class? Probably not.

    Among a closed enrollment/ known quality class with a small number of students to instructor? Maybe, at that point it's not much different then dry fire at home.
     
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