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  • Coach

    Grandmaster
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    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
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    Coatesville
    Hypothetically: You are teaching a very basic class at the local gun store and range. You are in the middle of a group of ladies handling some chamber flagged guns at the counter seeing what fits their hands and what feels good in their hands. A lady walks into the show room. She is dressed as a business professional. She is as pale as a sheet, and outwardly very scared/nervous. You and she make eye contact so you ask. "How can I help you"? She responds that she needs a gun and training. Fear is very obviously present in her eyes. She has never fired a gun of any kind ever. You inform her that the next class is one week away. She responds that she cannot wait that long. The look in her eye clearly says she believes that to be true.

    The above has been provided as the often sought after context.

    All of the smart ass responses (that are typical on INGO) please refrain and go post somewhere else. If you cannot refrain may your soul roast in hell for eternity.

    What is your response to the above situation?
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
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    Speedway area
    I agree with the posting SA comment. Keep it on point people.

    There has to be something deeper going on. Until I knew what that was through 1 on 1 conversation I would be Leary to put a firearm in her hands.
    Full disclosure would have to be part of this.
     

    Bigtanker

    Cuddles
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    24   0   0
    Aug 21, 2012
    21,688
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    Osceola
    Honestly I'd try to get as much info from her as possible on why the rush. Then give her as much help as I could. Instructions, training and an explanation of the law. And if possible, I'd see if the local PD could help if needed. A gun fight is the last thing anybody wants and if it's that serious, I'd see if there is another way to avoid the problem, i.e. getting out of town for a while.
     

    VUPDblue

    Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
    Rating - 100%
    25   0   1
    Mar 20, 2008
    12,885
    83
    Franklin Township
    Sounds like the opening scene of John Wick 4.

    Seriously though, that’s tough and I have no idea what to suggest. I also feel like I need to say that if this woman possesses the self preservation instinct, she should maybe seek other means to avoid the situation she feels she needs a gun for. The gun would be great, but she’s not gonna be up to speed in a week.
     

    KellyinAvon

    Blue-ID Mafia Consigliere
    Staff member
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    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Dec 22, 2012
    24,796
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    Avon
    Hypothetically: You are teaching a very basic class at the local gun store and range. You are in the middle of a group of ladies handling some chamber flagged guns at the counter seeing what fits their hands and what feels good in their hands. A lady walks into the show room. She is dressed as a business professional. She is as pale as a sheet, and outwardly very scared/nervous. You and she make eye contact so you ask. "How can I help you"? She responds that she needs a gun and training. Fear is very obviously present in her eyes. She has never fired a gun of any kind ever. You inform her that the next class is one week away. She responds that she cannot wait that long. The look in her eye clearly says she believes that to be true.

    The above has been provided as the often sought after context.

    All of the smart ass responses (that are typical on INGO) please refrain and go post somewhere else. If you cannot refrain may your soul roast in hell for eternity.

    What is your response to the above situation?

    Heavy stuff here Coach. Serious Paul Harvey situation (the rest of the story) with this one. Need more information and this could definitely be out of the lane of a firearms instructor, but not a high school teacher.

    Talk in private, find out if this needs to have the Police involved or another entity. In her current state as described it may not be the best time for intro to firearms. Have to get more info, be ready to bring in somebody who is better qualified for the situation.

    What is the rest of the story on this one?
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
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    93   0   0
    Feb 11, 2008
    38,170
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    Btown Rural
    "Do you have out-of-town family or friends you can stay with safely?"

    We can look for your new instructor there.

    There is no quick hardware solution for this.
     
    Last edited:

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
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    Speedway area

    therewolf

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Nov 9, 2013
    53
    8
    United States
    Let's push the cart down hill here.

    You don't help her, for fear of her shooting someone. 3 days later you hear her husband beat her to death.

    You help her, for fear of her safety. 3 days later you hear her she shot her husband.

    You "intervene", and the police "help" her. 3 days later you hear her enraged husband beat her to death.

    You "intervene", and don't instruct her. 3 days later you hear she committed suicide.

    Basically, there's a lot of ways this situation can go bad, especially if it turns out she's not just shy, or paranoid. So, how much of this
    situation is ever "in your control" to begin with ? And how can you be sure of a positive outcome ?
     

    Bigtanker

    Cuddles
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    24   0   0
    Aug 21, 2012
    21,688
    151
    Osceola
    Let's push the cart down hill here.

    You don't help her, for fear of her shooting someone. 3 days later you hear her husband beat her to death.

    You help her, for fear of her safety. 3 days later you hear her she shot her husband.

    You "intervene", and the police "help" her. 3 days later you hear her enraged husband beat her to death.

    You "intervene", and don't instruct her. 3 days later you hear she committed suicide.

    Basically, there's a lot of ways this situation can go bad, especially if it turns out she's not just shy, or paranoid. So, how much of this
    situation is ever "in your control" to begin with ? And how can you be sure of a positive outcome ?

    You can never be sure of the outcome. All you can do is use your best judgement; possibly with the help an advice of others in your field and/or local LEO. But whatever decision is made, you'll have live with it. If she's playing you, you got played. If she's not messing around and something bad happens to her because you thought she was playing you? I think I'd have a hard time with that.

    It definitely has the potential to be a lose-lose situation.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
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    Speedway area
    You can never be sure of the outcome. All you can do is use your best judgement; possibly with the help an advice of others in your field and/or local LEO. But whatever decision is made, you'll have live with it. If she's playing you, you got played. If she's not messing around and something bad happens to her because you thought she was playing you? I think I'd have a hard time with that.

    It definitely has the potential to be a lose-lose situation.

    Both are on point. This is the catch 22 in this.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
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    93   0   0
    Feb 11, 2008
    38,170
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    Btown Rural
    I believe some are letting emotion get in the way of best practice. There are professionals who handle this stuff every day. They need to be called in on this. Surely the professionals have resources beyond firearm instruction.

    Don't forget that the instructor is in the middle of a class. The instructor's responsibility is to their class, who are no less deserving of immediate attention.
     

    Trapper Jim

    Master
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    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2012
    2,676
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    Arcadia
    Reading Peeps is an art. Running a business attracts all kinds. Commercial range/rental arenas can be convenient for suicide and/or murder prep so to be clear one can have a process but it all boils down to a judgement call. Good luck but for me to call it I would have to be the one interviewing her.
     

    NHT3

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    52   0   0
    If I were convinced after some conversation that she was truly in need I would do what I could, as soon as I could to help her. Find a time to meet with her for instruction and advice on a pistol. I don't have the skills that some here have but the lady has no skills at all so any training/information would be a step up. In the Gunsite class it was suggested that if you don't have first hand knowledge of the principals in a situation to think long and hard about getting involved. I'm sure that's good advice but if I felt it was a dire situation I would do what I could to assist her and pray that it was enough. It is usually a difficult path but compassion for others is always the best path. It could be a mistake and I've made my share but I wouldn't sleep well at night if I didn't try to help her.
    My biggest regrets are not the things I've said and done but the things I didn't say and didn't do.

    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT]

    “Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” ….Coach
     

    Ziggidy

    Grandmaster
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    2   0   0
    May 7, 2018
    7,271
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    Ziggidyville
    If the person is in obvious need, I'd say something. Try to offer alternatives but I do not "think" I'd see her a gun at this time. I would offer help wherever I could; within the law. Doing that, I know in my heart I did the right thing.

    If something goes haywire in a few days/weeks, I cannot hold myself responsible for the irrational actions of others. What happens after is not something I can control. She may walk down the street and buy a gun elsewhere, I do not know.

    Here's a struggle thought. Do you contact the authorities? Is this a RED FLAG? Could I have prevented a murder or suicide by using the red flag? DO I use the very law that I am fearful will be used on innocent people? (I "think" I may use this)

    There is no real answer except for one to do what they feel is the best thing to do.....and pray it ends well. (and be ready to live with your actions)
     
    Last edited:

    dudley0

    Nobody Important
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    99   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
    3,725
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    Grant County
    Finish your class.

    If she hangs out after that then engage in conversation. If she is hesitant then maybe press a little, but otherwise shine her on. If she opens up then you start deciding if she is full of crap, really in need or maybe just scared because of something light that happened.

    You are a very busy man. The fact that you would donate a little time means something. If you get a good read on her maybe you can help the situation. If you find out she is a crack head who just lost her kids in a custody battle maybe you don't want to assist just yet.

    I have learned in my trade to read people. I am fairly good at it. When I get a professional liar I don't always see thru the ruse and end up getting bit because of it.

    Tough call either way in this scenario. Interested in the comments of others.
     

    chezuki

    Human
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    48   0   0
    Mar 18, 2009
    34,152
    113
    Behind Bars
    IMO, it sounds like it’s too late for a gun to be the right tool for whatever is haunting her today. This would be like going out to buy a fire extinguisher because your house is on fire. The time to prepare has come and passed. She should let the pros handle this one, but take the lesson and set a plan to be better prepared.
     

    Vigilant

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
    11,659
    83
    Plainfield
    IMO, it sounds like it’s too late for a gun to be the right tool for whatever is haunting her today. This would be like going out to buy a fire extinguisher because your house is on fire. The time to prepare has come and passed. She should let the pros handle this one, but take the lesson and set a plan to be better prepared.
    Cant help but agree with this.
     

    jsharmon7

    Grandmaster
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    119   0   0
    Nov 24, 2008
    7,822
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    Freedonia
    I think I’d offer to help her, but let her know I need to know what we’re preparing for in order to best help her. Her response would dictate what I did next. The fact that she’s asked for training tends to indicate she’s expecting to be on the defensive. Too many other ways to take someone out if she’s on the offensive. I think if I did help her I’d try to be as clear as possible that a few hours of training aren’t going to be a huge help and that a better plan could be more useful. If it comes down to it, maybe a little bit of familiarity with a firearm may save her life.

    As much as I’d like to rely on letting the police handle it, they can’t sit outside her house 24 hours a day. I would suggest she gets a protective order and try her best to let the police handle it, but she needs to understand the limitations of that plan.
     
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