Dry fire more accurate than real fire

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  • dekindy

    Marksman
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    2   0   0
    Feb 25, 2020
    191
    28
    Noblesville
    I have a laser bullet and LASR(laser activated shot reporter) software. I am pleased with my dry firing both in slow fire bullseye and drawing from the holster. However live firing is still disappointing. Wondering if the software is not accurate enough that shots falling outside the target area are being recorded as hits? Or is live fire causing me to make mistakes that I don't make in dry firing?

    I also use a MantisX and also have a Coolfire Trainer to simulate recoil but have not used the latter very much yet; I opted for high shot capacity which the apparatus prevents me from drawing from a holster and also did not get the laser. If I add the laser and only use the standard setup without the added capacity I would be able to draw from the holster and use the LASR wiith the Coolfire Trainer. Wondering if I am going to have to use the simulated recoil for all dry firing for me to get the benefit I want or is it just lack of a pure volume of dry fire repetitions that I have not accumulated yet.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     

    Chase515

    Expert
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    13   0   0
    Jan 29, 2011
    765
    28
    Oxford, In
    Laser training devices will not help correct grip issues most shooters have. If your first shot hits the bullseye during live fire then the consecutive shots hit all over its most likely a grip issue. If you have a weak grip buy a set of grip trainers. I have worked up from 100lb to 150lb and now use 200lb. I squeeze the grip trainer closed then practice pulling the trigger 17 times to mimic a full mag. It's very important you make sure your support hand is locked into the grip if you can get the palm of your support hand pinched under the strong hand your doing it right.
     

    NHT3

    Grandmaster
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    52   0   0
    Great training tools but the equation changes when your brain senses that you have a "bomb" going off in your hands.. You will also find having a timer running or an audience of your peers can muddle things up in your head. I haven't had the experience but I'm sure that incoming fire would also affect your performance. IMHO getting involved in some live fire matches is what most people need to rise to the next level.

    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT]

    “Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” ….Coach
     

    Chase515

    Expert
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    13   0   0
    Jan 29, 2011
    765
    28
    Oxford, In
    I'd have to disagree on the shooting matches. The bomb going off can easily be cured by shooting into the berm with both eyes open and watching the gun cycle. Adding in running or a audience will do nothing to cure accuracy problems of a person trying to improve basic handgun skills. In my journey training I started with reading magazines, shooting guns I had no business shooting such as .357 as a kid. Developing bad habits that didn't improve when taking carry/defensive classes. 3 day handgun mastery at TPC in St. George Utah is what fixed my problems. Learning the basic fundamentals of handgun shooting while building the proper shot, grip, stance and trigger control. The TPC fire control triangle. Now shooting while walking, running, being timed in front of a audience is a joy. I use a Sirt pistol indoors for repetition of drawing and mag changes. Great tool but grip strength/ proper grip, with trigger control rules at the range.
     

    Coach

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    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    Laser devices used during Dry practice can cause issues. Because you are looking at the target to see where the laser is hitting rather than being focused on the Front sight where you should be focusing. If you are eye sprinting from the front sight to the target in dry practice you will be doing that in live fire and poor results will be a reality. I recommend not using lasers during dry practice.
     

    Twangbanger

    Grandmaster
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    21   0   0
    Oct 9, 2010
    7,062
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    I am not a badass, but will relate one story about lasers. A couple who are friends of mine got big into guns the last few years (she is a nurse who travels to unfamiliar hospitals a lot). They are big believers in lasers, for live fire and everything. I drying-fired the trigger on his Sig a couple times then did a few real careful "surprise break" precision shots, using both the sights and the laser. He had his laser sighted in several inches high. He was compensating for a very consistent downward jerk that was present in his shooting, but which he was not aware of. (By consistent, I mean - he could hit with this gun sighted in that way - he was moving the shot by a rather consistent amount each time). I proved it to him by having them watch me squeeze off shots slowly, watching the laser dot lie still, and the shots landing above where the dot was when the shot lifted off. He went back to shooting it, and the shots (pretty much) went right back to center using the laser, with him shooting the gun.

    This is an example of how your point of impact can be doing crazy things at the moment of firing, that you aren't seeing. The faster your visual reference point (sights or laser) is moving around, the easier it is not to notice this. In my example above, a small laser dot on paper in bright sunlight was just faster than their eyes could keep up with at the moment of firing.

    A note about grip trainers - strong grip is important, because it can reduce small errors relating to trigger pull, for a good shooter who is doing everything else right. But fundamentally not moving the gun on the shot is more important. Bad technique can overpower the strongest grip, and you can be applying
    the wrong technique, more strongly.

     
    Last edited:

    WanderingSol07

    Sharpshooter
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    0   0   0
    Aug 7, 2017
    413
    28
    North Central
    I used a bore laser (G-Sight) and it improved my accuracy significantly.

    I was not looking at where the momentary laser dot appeared, my phone was recording my hits.

    I could do a hundred or so trigger pulls in the house. This helped me eliminate jerk, I now squeeze the trigger with a constant pull.

    This did two things, I was no longer concerned about the bang and recoil, I could concentrate on my trigger pull over and over; I could
    focus on the sights, front sight in particular.

    After several weeks my live fire improved dramatically.

    Yes, you can use a laser and do the wrong things and not improve, you can also live fire and do the wrong things and not improve.
     

    Coach

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    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
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    Coatesville
    If you need a laser to anything in live fire then you suck and are not fundamentally sound. I am not saying they do not have a time and place or context but if that is the only way you hit then you are not doing the fundamentals right.

    With a pistol all you have to do is align the sights correctly and press the trigger straight back, and only press the trigger straight back. Easy to say and hard to do. Grip does not matter for pure accuracy. Not one bit, unless... I need those hits right away, and then grip is very important. The grip does not put the hits in the right place it puts the gun back on target after recoil.
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
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    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
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    Coatesville
    I am not a badass, but will relate one story about lasers. A couple who are friends of mine got big into guns the last few years (she is a nurse who travels to unfamiliar hospitals a lot). They are big believers in lasers, for live fire and everything. I drying-fired the trigger on his Sig a couple times then did a few real careful "surprise break" precision shots, using both the sights and the laser. He had his laser sighted in several inches high. He was compensating for a very consistent downward jerk that was present in his shooting, but which he was not aware of. (By consistent, I mean - he could hit with this gun sighted in that way - he was moving the shot by a rather consistent amount each time). I proved it to him by having them watch me squeeze off shots slowly, watching the laser dot lie still, and the shots landing above where the dot was when the shot lifted off. He went back to shooting it, and the shots (pretty much) went right back to center using the laser, with him shooting the gun.

    This is an example of how your point of impact can be doing crazy things at the moment of firing, that you aren't seeing. The faster your visual reference point (sights or laser) is moving around, the easier it is not to notice this. In my example above, a small laser dot on paper in bright sunlight was just faster than their eyes could keep up with at the moment of firing.

    A note about grip trainers - strong grip is important, because it can reduce small errors relating to trigger pull, for a good shooter who is doing everything else right. But fundamentally not moving the gun on the shot is more important. Bad technique can overpower the strongest grip, and you can be applying
    the wrong technique, more strongly.


    And if their laser crapped out where would they be?
     
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