Real v. Fake

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  • Coach

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    How does one tell the real thing from a fake? In the realm of shooting.
     

    Jackson

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    How does one tell the real thing from a fake? In the realm of shooting.

    Pure shooting skills? Objective measures of the specific skill. Speed, accuracy, repeatability, whatever can all be measured.

    Real for self defense? Somewhat less objective, but some combination of reviewing real-world case studies, pressure testing in near-actual context, and objective measures where available.
     

    JettaKnight

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    Well, if they make noises with their mouth instead of the gun, then it's fake.
    [video=youtube_share;UyydJOemUQ4]http://youtu.be/UyydJOemUQ4[/video]

    Maybe I'm missing the point of this thread.
     

    GIJEW

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    Well, if they make noises with their mouth instead of the gun, then it's fake.
    [video=youtube_share;UyydJOemUQ4]http://youtu.be/UyydJOemUQ4[/video]

    Maybe I'm missing the point of this thread.
    Being poor sucks.
    FWIW In the IDF about 40 years ago, we would do a lot of dry-fire reps like that before repeating them live-fire. Yelling "bang" was also the SOP for FOF drills. I understand some elite units were starting to get MILEs gear about that time
     

    IUKalash429

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    Well, if they make noises with their mouth instead of the gun, then it's fake.
    [video=youtube_share;UyydJOemUQ4]http://youtu.be/UyydJOemUQ4[/video]

    And on the other side of this spectrum, is Russia...

    [video=youtube_share;rI01qKAqYts]https://youtu.be/rI01qKAqYts[/video]
     

    Jackson

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    Pure shooting skills? Objective measures of the specific skill. Speed, accuracy, repeatability, whatever can all be measured.

    Real for self defense? Somewhat less objective, but some combination of reviewing real-world case studies, pressure testing in near-actual context, and objective measures where available.

    Maybe I didn't understand the question. I went with my first thought. Tell if what is real?
     

    Coach

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    Maybe I didn't understand the question. I went with my first thought. Tell if what is real?

    Is there a right answer?

    Clint Smith or the Warrior Poet which one is real?

    I remember at the introduction segment of a class one time that Henk Iverson made the comment that you could tell a real gunman by their gear. Real gunman have serious belts and holsters and others do not have real equipment. Do other's make such judgements? Can you be real wearing and Uncle Mike's holster of a Fobus Holster?

    In any line of work there is the real deal and there are fakes? How does INGO sort them out.

    There are a few places in my life where I take things very serious;y. I get a more than a little out of sorts when fakes try and occupy the same space or level as me. I cannot stand a hypocrite or a fake, and yet they abound. I guess I was really asking do people look for the fakes?

    There is a big difference between a tattoo and a scar. In the shooting world are people looking for that difference.

    In your response it is harder to tell in the defensive shooting world than it is in the competition world, unless you have won gunfights. Short of winning gunfights how do you tell the capable people from the pretenders?
     

    Twangbanger

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    Martial Gun training is a unique business (and yes, I know it's not all about guns). It's not like dentistry, or law, or something with a rigidly-enforced credential structure. A lot of these people are picking up the trade by simply watching and emulating those who went before them, so they get by on a liberal amount of association, personal recommendation, and just pure charisma. (Did people "enjoy" your class?) My experience is most will not go home and train what they've learned, so what does "enjoying" a class even mean?

    I've watched a couple of Warrior Poet's videos where he's teaching in front of people, and in my opinion, he's so full of himself that I wouldn't pay to listen to it, even if he had battle scars up one side and down the other. There's only so much **** you can tolerate. And he's got it in spades.

    The guy who used to be pastor of a church that went under, and now comments on videos all day long? There is another, different type of "warrior poet." More like warrior theologian. Somebody interviewed him, and he talked about how his wife "treated" him to a new Mustang once he reached a certain number of subs on his YouTube channel. He's got a tactical-sounding name for his business, and everything. But it's a frickin' YouTube channel. Not sure about that one, but it sure seemed kinda…"opportunistic."

    I also will not pay to train with anyone who will not reveal their real name, publicly. You have to put your resume up for scrutiny, and that means a name people can look up. Whether it's Instructor Zero, or everyone's local INGO fave. If I can only know you by a cutesy nickname prior to showing up for your class, that's "fake," to me. You're so tactical you can't reveal your name? Then you're too tactical to get my hard-earned money. Might not be fair. But it's my money.

    I've also learned you have to learn to take recommendations with a grain of salt, sometimes. Recommendations just mean people "liked" you or your class.

    I guess my criteria are, 1) will they reveal their resume by name, and 2) are they so full of **** you can't stand listening to them? Bonus points if they will shoot competition and allow themselves to be measured objectively against others. People like Gabe White earn a lot of points in my book, on those counts.
     
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    Goodcat

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    Who cares how the instructor can shoot. Can they take your skill level beyond where it was, for a reasonable value to you? Real.
     

    Hop

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    ...I get a more than a little out of sorts when fakes try and occupy the same space or level as me...

    There's always someone better. Always someone worse. No matter what you do.

    To some, you may be the real deal, to others, you may be the fake. Stay humble, absorb knowledge. Use what works best for you, file the rest in the back of your mind for a more appropriate situation.

    The Fudd looking dude rocking that Uncle Mike's may able to A zone an entire mag with his Keltec before the rich dude wearing the Safariland gear can fumble his Cajunized CZ out of it's holster. :p
     

    Coach

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    There's always someone better. Always someone worse. No matter what you do.

    To some, you may be the real deal, to others, you may be the fake. Stay humble, absorb knowledge. Use what works best for you, file the rest in the back of your mind for a more appropriate situation.

    The Fudd looking dude rocking that Uncle Mike's may able to A zone an entire mag with his Keltec before the rich dude wearing the Safariland gear can fumble his Cajunized CZ out of it's holster. :p

    Doubtful
     

    Chase515

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    25 shots cold bore. 1" dots at 5 yards. Tpc has the targets availble for free to down load. 30 seconds is pro level. This is what I practice and what I'm trying to achieve.
     
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