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Thread: Is PCC the way to go?

  1. #21
    Grandmaster

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    I am thinking this topic needs some research.
    Why do you need any research? Trapper Jim already gave you the answer.
    Michael Swisher

  2. #22
    Expert Trapper Jim's Avatar

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    Maybe it will help to think target transition with a rifle in a phone booth.. but maybe all your fights start 10 feet away?😅
    No Compromise

  3. #23
    Proud Millennial Ggreen's Avatar

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    Shotguns are basically never the answer. It requires a massive amount of skill and training to even come close to being competitive with a carbine.

    Pistols are not easy. You Hanne basically the same exposure with a pistol that you have with a carbine. Unless your in a portolet. Pistols have relatively limited capacity, and limited ballistics compared to a carbine. Pistols are great to carry, but if I'm in an extended defensive situation I'll take a carbine any day.

    PCC has limited ballistics compared to a comparable rifle cartridge carbine. Also ammo has some interesting things it does with the extra velocity, sometimes fragmenting before it really penetrates. Making even cheaper armor really effective.

    So all 3 are useful but compromises.

    My current choice is a 14.5" 6.5grendel 123gr
    Muzzle velocity around 2400 FPS, around 1500 ft/lbs
    Its a compact package with ambi controls, so shooting from cover is easy and fluid. Handles just a bit more violently than my 16"ar9.

    It all comes down to a numbers game. Velocity and energy, capacity, and split times. A good rifle caliber ar is always the winner when it comes to having a choice.

  4. #24
    Grandmaster VERT's Avatar

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    G. You have a lot of good points.

    Agreed, Shotguns for the inexperienced is not a good choice. However, setup correctly with the right combination of ammunition might be the most universally versatile choice amongst the long guns. But that really does not pertain to the original question and I am off topic.

    You bring up an interesting point about the extra velocity from the PCC compared to the same cartridge being fired from a handgun. The extra 100-200 FPS makes the bullets behave differently. Bullets designed for handgun velocities might give up penetration. This of course depends on the ammo and gun combination as some of the PCCs are just long barreled handguns or use some sort of fake barrel or brake of sorts to meet the 16 requirement. I have to keep it simple and compare 9mm or .40 out of the longer barrel to .357 Sig or 10mm from a handgun. Nasty, rough comparison but similar. Interestingly enough I can think of at least two LE departs that gave up their MP5s due to problems with over penetration. PCCs with 124 grain ball ammo will work over soft armor pretty well.

    I also know of one department that adopted the Sig MPX instead of .223. This was because one of the ranges they were using did not allow rifle cartridges. This is becoming more of an issue with city police departments. Also they switched to 9mm handguns to help with the inventory of ammo. So PCCs are not rifle cartridges. But there are some valid reasons for their adoption.
    "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side kid." - Han Solo

  5. #25
    Expert Trapper Jim's Avatar

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    The key here in the OP is equipping untrained peeps with PCCs during a civil unrest movement. A trained rifle unit can advance and/or protect the compound but only with watching and protecting each others 3 ft circle. As a mob thinking like wolves advancing on an untrained long gun, they quite simply can throw the unsuspecting fellow mobster/citizen into the muzzle, while then advancing in to remove the jugular. There are good scenario based training opportunities but all useless without good marksmanship no matter what you equip the noob with.
    Last edited by Trapper Jim; 10-04-2020 at 10:47.
    No Compromise

  6. #26
    Marksman

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    I'll say while sure a 5.56 would be preferred the PCC has a place. I think I'm on topic here but I'll answer this as the scenerio is a new or novice shooter and you have minimal time to bring up to some kind of speed. Novice or first time shooters there is a little less of a learning curve with a long gun and a good RDS is easier to teach than irons in a pinch.

    The other factor especially with small stature shooters some folks will not be as intimidated by a PCC a i has less blast than an AR. While most of us have no issue with rifles I just retired from an agency that qualified everyone from seasoned SORT guys to the once a year because they make them secretary. And some people can't get over the M4/16 but the same people had no issue with the 9mm Colt SMG we used. I am convinced it was because of the pistol caliber and lighter weight.

    PCC can have a place as its better than a handgun for some users. There are some that have zero interest in becoming "proficient" but need something .

    DA revolvers are often criticized but thete are still many many never shoot at all users that learned years ago and have used them when needed So I wouldn't rule anything out.

  7. #27
    Grandmaster
    Coach's Avatar

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    Just information on weight. Ark got me thinking about weight.

    I have two AR's in the safe but neither are 16 inch barrels.

    Iron sighted AR with sling weighed 8.5 pounds.
    AR with scope and sling weighed 8.9 pounds.

    PSA PCC with PSA dot weighed 6.5 pounds.
    Ruger takedown carbine wighed 6.9 pounds.

    Once again just information. Not sure how big a deal the weight is.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

    abright@ccrtc.com

    Rangemaster Certified Instructor
    USCCA Certified Instructor
    USPSA Range Officer

  8. #28
    Grandmaster
    Coach's Avatar

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    FYI as well I am trying to arrange for some new shooters to do some testing.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

    abright@ccrtc.com

    Rangemaster Certified Instructor
    USCCA Certified Instructor
    USPSA Range Officer

  9. #29
    Expert

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    For me it was simple.
    Get a long gun that uses the same mags / ammo as my current pistol, or go with another caliber?
    Thus, the Ruger PCC was it.

  10. #30
    Grandmaster Tactically Fat's Avatar

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    Generally speaking, long gun is more betterer than short gun.

    4 points of contact on a long gun is more betterer than 2 points of contact on a pistol.

    Intermediate caliber will generally be more betterer than pistol caliber.

    Battle rifle caliber may be more betterer than intermediate caliber.

    But it's all mission specific.

    Let the mission define the gear.

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