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Thread: Is PCC the way to go?

  1. #1
    Grandmaster
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    Is PCC the way to go?

    We may or may not be on the cusp of a civil war or vast civil unrest. For the person who has no shooting skills is PCC the way to go? Why or why not?

    With the idea of getting a person with no training as prepared as possible for defending themselves and their family as fast as possible.
    Last edited by Coach; 10-02-2020 at 05:10.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

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  2. #2
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    Interesting. Why PCC and not AR?
    Michael Swisher

  3. #3
    Master obijohn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by cedartop View Post
    Interesting. Why PCC and not AR?
    This a good question. I think the AR would be preferred. There are quite a few good PCC's available now, but some of the more budget friendly ones don't seem to run too well. There are exceptions.

    How about a pistol caliber lever gun? Even a 30-30 isn't too hard to handle.

    Any platform would work in the end provided the subject will truly pay attention to someone like Coach or Cedertop (or any of the other well qualified mentors).
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  4. #4
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    The question

    I ask because of all the possibilities out there this one may not jump out at the primary answer. There are many options with many advantages and disadvantages with each, If you have a short amount of time to equip and then arm this person and you want to get it right what is the best option. Perhaps they are female, someone like my wife who can shoot but does not like to but we may need her as backup or to hold a position. Perhaps it is male like a friend of mine, who spawned this mess in my head, who is former military and a hunter but has zero pistol skills, and many of his hunting rifles and shotguns are not well suited to the task of home defense.

    So in considering all of this I pose the question is PCC being over-looked?

    I am in the process of trying to arrive at an answer. There might not be a single answer that fits every person or situation.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

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  5. #5
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    I don't think PCC would be a bad answer. Not sure how available they are right now. I know I am on a waiting list for a couple. Overlooked? Maybe by the general population who may not even know such a thing exists.
    Michael Swisher

  6. #6
    Grandmaster Cameramonkey's Avatar

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    Maybe, maybe not. My wife shoots her pistol much better than my PCC. She complains that its heavy.


    But I understand the theory. I shoot that PCC MUCH more accurately than my pistol beyond 25 yards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Freeman View Post
    A confused cop is an arresty cop.
    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierdoc View Post
    also, where do we sign up to touch Frank's equipment?

  7. #7
    Master Twangbanger's Avatar

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    Shhh Coach! We need to keep education-resistant newbies with no knowledge and no skills buying 300 Blackout ARs...not further depleting the 9mm pipeline.

    We almost had the problem solved...now you come in here and kick the hornets' nest.

  8. #8
    Ark
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    I consider PCCs for the civilian sector to be a range toy. For LE/Mil they are an extreme niche product for executive protection, vehicles, or suppressed use inside confined spaces. Even in those roles they're a rarity in the age of short-barreled ARs and suppressors.

    5.56 AR with a dot is lighter than a 16" PCC in most instances, recoils less, has much lower reciprocating mass, shoots essentially flat out to 250, has better terminal performance, and enjoys lightning fast reloads and LRBHO. You can hand one to a completely new shooter, show them how the safety and bolt release work, and tell them to place the dot on the target and fire. There is no strength or stature requirement beyond the ability to physically lift the rifle. In the pre-rona times this could be accomplished with a $400 off-the-shelf PSA rifle, $100 dot, $20 sling, and a handful of $8 PMAGs. A hundred rounds at the range to zero at 50 and confirm functionality and it's ready to be put into use with no worries.

    There are no PCCs that can make comparable claims. Reloading with funsticks is more awkward. They often lack LRBHOs. They are often more expensive. They tend to recoil harder unless you spend much more money on delayed systems. Many PCCs on the market have subpar reliability and require longer testing and function check periods. Pistol calibers are subpar options for killing humans, to speak frankly. At 100 yards you are holding on the target's head, at 150 yards you're holding in the air above the target, and past 150 yards you are planting the butt in the dirt and using a protractor to send indirect fire missions. 5.56 guns with a dot are "what you see is what you get" out past the distance most people can even see a target in perfect conditions, and a novice shooter simply isn't going to grasp the concept of holds or windage without training and practice.

    I like PCCs, I like the history, I'm a gun nerd, but even measured against something as plebeian as an off-the-rack 16" PSA rifle with a Holosun, I struggle to find even a single real-world application for choosing any PCC over it. I don't think that's an indictment of the PCC, I think it's a statement of recognition of just how phenomenally good the 5.56 AR platform is.

  9. #9
    Grandmaster VERT's Avatar

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    Interesting question. I think the PCC is overlooked. For me they seem more practical. I rarely shoot further then 50 yards and the PCC allows me to shoot paper or steel. Plus until recently I was not setup to reload .223. I think a person armed with a quality 9mm carbine and 9mm handgun has the advantage of only dealing with one type of ammunition.

    Recently I traded my spare AR carbine for a PCC. Yes I only had the two, we actually do not own many guns in our household and I was wanting a more capable firearm for my wife. She is a good shooter but doesnít practice much. She has little to no experience with long guns. She is left handed, arthritic and her right (weak hand) and right elbow have both been injured in the past. The Second AR would have been fine but I decided the PCC made more sense. Controls are similar to the AR so would still make a nice spare gun for me, recoil and noise are reduced (direct blow back models have more recoil then a DI .223), completely ambidextrous, adjustable VFG to help her with her bad hand, easy to swap the sling for either hand, shares the same ammo as her handguns. I had no problem keeping shots on a 2/3 IPSC target at 100 yards which is about as far as my bifocal wearing eyes can see anyway.

    Sig MPX. Yes they are a little pricey. Especially the magazines. What little time I have spent with the gun I think it is a fine option. Little heavy but no worse then the AR it replaced. Very light recoil, easy to handle. This one needs a better trigger but I donít think I am going to mess with that until 2021.



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  10. #10
    Expert ajeandy's Avatar

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    Wouldn't be my first choice, especially if I'm trusting someone with little experience to "hold a position..."

    If they had to actually shoot at someone and they had little experience then I'd hope if they hit them, that they'd be able to stop the threat with one hit ideally....PCC wouldn't be as good at doing that as 223/556/300/762/etc (any major rifle caliber)

    There's also virtually no recoil on 223/5.56 so I'm not sure why one would choose something like 9mm pcc over an AR. This is also assuming you have a choice between the two, like if you have both options and the option not chosen would be left unused at the time.

    That being said, I have both lol

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