Out of State Carry in Indiana question

[revance]

What I am saying is there is not a single state in the union that issues a license/permit that they could revoke if you did something in Indiana that was legal here but not in their state.

After all, if it was the terms of their license, they could revoke it if you did that right? Find ONE state that has it in their code that under the terms of their license/permit you must obey their laws in other states.

 

[clgustaveson]

We recognize their licenses under the terms of the issued license. It is the exact same thing. If the license says they can only do X, they cannot do Y.

However all the other local traffic laws have no bearing here in IN.


Again, just ask an attorney, you will see that you are incorrect. I have already discussed these issues with one. Other state's laws cannot be applicable in Indiana. Unless their permit states "not valid in a bar" they can carry in a bar here despite what state they are from.

Wrong, if the individual is under the legal age of issuance, the state does not recognize the license. In no uncertain terms at all.

That is my way of saying it is not a fair comparison at all.

 

[revance]

Wrong, if the individual is under the legal age of issuance, the state does not recognize the license. In no uncertain terms at all.

That is my way of saying it is not a fair comparison at all.

WHAT???

Again, find me one state that issues a carry license/permit that the law states will be revoked if they don't follow the local state's laws in other states. I'll give you a hint... none of them do. All they care is that you follow the APPLICABLE laws (which is dependent on your location).

 

[clgustaveson]

What I am saying is there is not a single state in the union that issues a license/permit that they could revoke if you did something in Indiana that was legal here but not in their state.

After all, if it was the terms of their license, they could revoke it if you did that right? Find ONE state that has it in their code that under the terms of their license/permit you must obey their laws in other states.

If that's all your saying then were cool cause that has nothing to do with what I am saying.

Also it has nothing to do with that states law, you create a paradox here when you say that it has to be in their law. We are not technically talking about their law, we are talking about Indiana law. I never said that you couldn't violate that states laws, you cannot violate Indiana law, which states we accept those permits under their terms.

Nothing more... I am not commenting on the procedure or the punishment for violating it.

I am ONLY saying it is vague and thus can lend to confusion but nonetheless it does exist.

My first post was semantically flawed and I apologize but I did clear up what I was saying.

 

[williamrights]

I had gotten some of my information (obviously wrong) from a state cop along time ago. However some states do not honor our permits because of the age issue along with the fact that we do not require training or testing. Also I do not hang out in gun shops. I go there to buy stuff (more and more online). I really have other things to do and do not have that luxury.

 

[revance]

Alright, one last time I am going to make this VERY simple.

A state issues a carry permit. The terms of that permit are that you follow all laws.

In that state it is illegalto carry in a bar. Where? IN THAT STATE! The law does not say it is illegal for residents of that state to carry in bars elsewhere. It merely says in THAT state it is illegal to carry in a bar.

So if you carry in a bar in Indiana, how are you in ANY way breaking your home states law? If you aren't breaking a law, how are you breaking the terms of your license/permit?

So unless it SPECIFICALLY states that as a term of the license you cannot carry in a bar, the other laws making it illegal to carry in a bar are NOT applicable in other states.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Okay, I spent a bit of time over the years attempting to answer this question since I am a resident of MN with a MN permit, but have a home in IN also and spend quite a bit of time here. The conclusion I came to was:
MN law states that I obey the laws of the state in which I am located, therefore, when in IN the IN laws apply to my MN permit. According to ISP I must abide by the laws of my issuing state which say to abide by the laws of the state I am in. I was and still am a bit confused and would LOVE to see nationwide reciprocity with the issuance of federal permits, but the downside to those issues forbid me from pushing for it. I guess it is really not up to the states individually anyways and any state law infringing upon my possession or carry are unconstitutional to begin with since old honest Abe screwed us to the wall anyways. You see, the COTUS is the law of the land and the states are only able to have laws regarding issues NOT covered by it. Anything covered by the COTUS is federal, anything NOT covered is up to the states as they deem fit. All this is EXACTLY why Ted Nugent said the COTUS IS MY PERMIT TO CARRY, your state laws mean NOTHING.

 

[clgustaveson]

WHAT???

Again, find me one state that issues a carry license/permit that the law states will be revoked if they don't follow the local state's laws in other states. I'll give you a hint... none of them do. All they care is that you follow the APPLICABLE laws (which is dependent on your location).

YOUR question is pointless. The logic has a syntax flaw, the answer cannot be included on the equation-

A+BC=C is wrong.


We are not talking about a violation of the issuing states law. The law that would be violated would be Indiana law! Yes, the state may revoke the license for violating Indiana law. I would say all of them.

 

[revance]

I had gotten some of my information (obviously wrong) from a state cop along time ago. However some states do not honor our permits because of the age issue along with the fact that we do not require training or testing. Also I do not hang out in gun shops. I go there to buy stuff (more and more online). I really have other things to do and do not have that luxury.

Sorry for being harsh... but dude, never take legal advice from cops. So many of them don't know the first thing about the law. I have heard soooo many cops say it is legal to transport your handgun to/from the range without a LTCH as long as it is unloaded and locked in your trunk (which btw is completely illegal). The CORRECT thing for them to say is "I wouldn't bust you for doing it"...but that doesn't mean another cop won't.

 

[clgustaveson]

Alright, one last time I am going to make this VERY simple.

A state issues a carry permit. The terms of that permit are that you follow all laws.

In that state it is illegalto carry in a bar. Where? IN THAT STATE! The law does not say it is illegal for residents of that state to carry in bars elsewhere. It merely says in THAT state it is illegal to carry in a bar.

So if you carry in a bar in Indiana, how are you in ANY way breaking your home states law? If you aren't breaking a law, how are you breaking the terms of your license/permit?

So unless it SPECIFICALLY states that as a term of the license you cannot carry in a bar, the other laws making it illegal to carry in a bar are NOT applicable in other states.

So you admit I am right... Good.

As for the rest of the question, I don't know.

 

[revance]

YOUR question is pointless. The logic has a syntax flaw, the answer cannot be included on the equation-

A+BC=C is wrong.


We are not talking about a violation of the issuing states law. The law that would be violated would be Indiana law! Yes, the state may revoke the license for violating Indiana law. I would say all of them.

You are saying that following the issuing state's law is part of their permit terms. Correct?

So in order for them to be violating the terms of issuance, they must be breaking the laws of their state.

The laws of their state don't say you can't carry in a bar in OTHER states, they say you can't carry in a bar in THEIR state. They can't break their home states laws while in Indiana, thus they aren't in violation of the terms of license, thus they aren't breaking IN law.

 

[revance]

So you admit I am right... Good.

As for the rest of the question, I don't know.

How in the heck do you get that? Are you even reading my posts?

 

[revance]

How is a person from TX carrying in a bar in Indiana outside the terms of their permit?

They aren't breaking any laws.

It is legal to carry in a bar here, and TX has no laws against carrying in a bar in Indiana. So how are they not complying with the terms of their license?

 

[moischmoe]

Yes, following the law is terms of your license/permit... however when you are in Indiana, you aren't breaking the law! Therefore, you are not breaking the terms of your license/permit, thus it cannot be held against you in IN.

You are creating a cyclical argument.

I must say, MY head is spinning.

 

[clgustaveson]

You are saying that following the issuing state's law is part of their permit terms. Correct?

So in order for them to be violating the terms of issuance, they must be breaking the laws of their state.

The laws of their state don't say you can't carry in a bar in OTHER states, they say you can't carry in a bar in THEIR state. They can't break their home states laws while in Indiana, thus they aren't in violation of the terms of license, thus they aren't breaking IN law.

No, I am saying Indiana law states they follow the terms of their permit. By violating those terms they are violating Indiana law, not their home states law. There is no jurisdiction of the home state, no law exists that can be violated outside of it's jurisdictions aka extraterritoriality.

 

[revance]

No, I am saying Indiana law states they follow the terms of their permit. By violating those terms they are violating Indiana law, not their home states law. There is no jurisdiction of the home state, no law exists that can be violated outside of it's jurisdictions aka extraterritoriality.

So how are you saying it is part of the terms of their permit? You are claiming all of that state's laws on the subject of carrying firearms are the "terms of their permit".

I am saying they most certainly aren't. They are merely local laws.


Earlier you said it was because the terms of their permit requires them to obey the law... but they ARE OBEYING THE LAW!

 

[clgustaveson]

How is a person from TX carrying in a bar in Indiana outside the terms of their permit?

They aren't breaking any laws.

It is legal to carry in a bar here, and TX has no laws against carrying in a bar in Indiana. So how are they not complying with the terms of their license?

You are right, that argument makes sense. I didn't think of it in context verbiage, but if you are prohibited from varying into a bar with your permit, then you are also prohibited in Indiana. Unless you are only prohibited from doing so in Texas.

The reason I said you agree with me, is because by moving to this argument you admit that terms are not limited to what is ON the permit.

 

[clgustaveson]

So how are you saying it is part of the terms of their permit? You are claiming all of that state's laws on the subject of carrying firearms are the "terms of their permit".

I am saying they most certainly aren't. They are merely local laws.


Earlier you said it was because the terms of their permit requires them to obey the law... but they ARE OBEYING THE LAW!

Nope I am not saying that. IF the terms require them to AGREE to obey the applicable laws then it is explicit.

In no way am I saying that they have to obey the laws of their state while not on their state.

The permit was issued and predicated on the fact that certain terms be met, in TX those terms include that you agree to not carry into a bar among other statutes. Indiana's code is so vague on the subject if a prosecutor was trying to find a way to charge you, there is no reason he could not. My argument rests on the fact that obeying local laws are the terms under which your license is issued. If the laws restricted you from carrying on Sunday you would have to do so no matter where you were, unless the state you were in stated otherwise.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

No, I am saying Indiana law states they follow the terms of their permit.

So what if the law of my issuing state say that I must obey the laws of the state I am in? By following MN law, I must abide by IN law when here. Since I am an OTR truck driver I find myself in a pickle on this issue frequently, so I keep a small safe in my sleeper and pretty much abide by transport laws until I park, then my truck is no longer a vehicle and becomes a domicile. Here is a link to the safe passage law. INTERSTATE DRIVING

 

[clgustaveson]

So what if the law of my issuing state say that I must obey the laws of the state I am in? By following MN law, I must abide by IN law when here. Since I am an OTR truck driver I find myself in a pickle on this issue frequently, so I keep a small safe in my sleeper and pretty much abide by transport laws until I park, then my truck is no longer a vehicle and becomes a domicile. Here is a link to the safe passage law. INTERSTATE DRIVING

And that is the way it should be, but Indiana is a very good state with gun laws. Some have more laws and the issuance of a permit is predicated on those laws.

I would assume, but don't know for sure, that you would indeed obey IN law.