The world has lost a great humanitarian

[edsinger]

Abortion and euthanasia are not remotely the same thing sir.

They are not? Hmmm

Murder is Murder.....justified or not. Killing a baby or helping an elderly do the same is really in reality the same, by definition.

A full grown adult, legally culpable for any decisions they may make, should certainly have the right to choose their time of dying, should the be in a position of terminal illness to the point that their life consists of nothing but physical pain, and mental anquish.

Ok if you believe it is your right to CHOOSE when you die then that is one thing, but why make society condone it?

Now don't get me wrong, if one is that sick, the plug can be pulled, drugs can be given for no pain etc etc. Nature can take a Natural course. I don't want to be on a machine etc, but I want to let my maker determine the time, not me.

What this doc did was no more than saying, ok you want to die, here is a concoction of drugs, push the switch. Would this be any different than giving someone a loaded gun and showing them how to pull the trigger?

You consider it more merciful to allow a person to languish bed-ridden, in agony than to allow them the peace of the grave? I fail to see mercy in that proposition at all.

You miss the point, in the 1800's they didn't give grandma a gun and say "Granny, your a burden to us now, so please take this gun and off yourself."

Why was that an issue? Because back then Life meant Life and suicide was NOT an option. To have a doctor HELP with this is SICK. It violates his oath that he took. He is to preserve life not take it.

Where this becomes a problem and those in reading need to think about it, is when it becomes accepted.

Mengele anyone?

Again, see what is happening with the Dutch.....


Father in Heaven, forgive us for we KNOW what we do.....

Don't get mad at me but my thoughts are that if you help someone die you commit murder(unless they are trying to kill you). If you want to end your own life that is one thing but to help someone end their life is another.

EXACTLY YOU GET IT - REP INBOUND!

 

[level.eleven]

How did we make a jump from patient initiated termination to systemic euthanasia?

 

[edsinger]

How did we make a jump from patient initiated termination to systemic euthanasia?

In the grand scheme of things, is there a difference?

 

[henktermaat]

Kevorkian, convicted in assisted suicides, dies - TODAY News - TODAY.com

He was quite possibly the most compassionate person I've ever seen.

'

Are you kidding me?

 

[edsinger]

'

Are you kidding me?

I think not..........

 

[ocsdor]

Of coarse, one way a person could get a lethal injection legally is to go out in public and murder a bunch of Kevorkian's protesters.

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting, telling, nor advocating anybody do this or anything similar whatsoever.

 

[edsinger]

Of coarse, one way a person could get a lethal injection legally is to go out in public and murder a bunch of Kevorkian's protesters.

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting, telling, nor advocating anybody do this or anything similar whatsoever.

Wow that was classy............why not add your opinion to the topic?

 

[ocsdor]

Wow that was classy............why not add your opinion to the topic?

Or, better yet, how about making a statement or two about your views on the subject instead of having a whole thread devoted to petty bickering.

 

[orange]

In the grand scheme of things, is there a difference?

Of course there is. I would like to know by what mental gymnastics you managed to equate a desire for assistance in suicide with murder.

Having worked with terminal cancer patients I have seen people whose bodies have been reduced to skeletons dipped in wax, people that had no strength left to blink. Should I reach such a state and find myself unable to swallow the pills, turn on the gas or pull the trigger, I would absolutely appreciate assistance. It disgusts me that you would sentence someone with no hope of recovery, no hope of anything but pain, to days, weeks, months of continued agony.

 

[Benny]

Kevorkian, convicted in assisted suicides, dies - TODAY News - TODAY.com

He was quite possibly the most compassionate person I've ever seen.

Indeed.

R.I.P. Dr. Kevorkian.

 

[downzero]

Some of you need to look up the definition of murder. I suggest a cursory understanding of "mens rea" to go along with it.

Fletch,

I couldn't agree more. I was sad to see that he passed.

 

[ocsdor]

Note of Interest: Chester Nimitz, Jr. (son of the famous WWII Admiral) and wife committed suicide.

In a note, he stated: "Our decision was made over a considerable period of time and was not carried out in acute desperation. Nor is it the expression of a mental illness. We have consciously, rationally, deliberately and of our own free will taken measures to end our lives today because of the physical limitations on our quality of life placed upon us by age, failing vision, osteoporosis, back and painful orthopedic problems."

source: Chester Nimitz, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[edsinger]

Of course there is. I would like to know by what mental gymnastics you managed to equate a desire for assistance in suicide with murder.

Well my mental gymnastic mind comes up with the idea that assisting someone to take a life is at the very least assisted murder. Justify it all you want but that is what it was, and hence why he served time. I don't have to prove it.

IF someone wants to take their own life, then there are many ways to do it without having someone HELP you do it. Period. Why cause someone to knowingly commit murder?

Can it ever be justified? I struggle with one case...Masada..

Having worked with terminal cancer patients I have seen people whose bodies have been reduced to skeletons dipped in wax, people that had no strength left to blink. Should I reach such a state and find myself unable to swallow the pills, turn on the gas or pull the trigger, I would absolutely appreciate assistance. It disgusts me that you would sentence someone with no hope of recovery, no hope of anything but pain, to days, weeks, months of continued agony.

Now you get to the point, in this case medical treatment can be stopped and the patient made to feel no pain and natural death can occur. You are correct if you assume that I find suicide immoral and selfish. Not just on the effect that it has one those left behind but also the eternal consequences of which I don't decide the outcome.

So you would appreciate having someone in your case commit your murder? Think about what you said. How selfish is that?

I would not sentence anyone to anything, if ones medical condition is that dire then life would be very short minus all the medical attention to continue life. I think someone mentioned a living will type thing. Pain can be negated so that is mute...


Which brings me to my point, this is Euthanasia in a sense and where it is legal, the younger in many cases are pushing for the elders to do just that as the financial and other burdens are too much they claim. It is happening now in Holland since no one looked and understood why I mentioned it twice.

And we wonder why the morals of this once great country are lacking...we have brought it on ourselves. We no longer value life as we once did.

'Thou shalt not Kill...'
This would include, Murder, Suicide, and Abortion....


Pandora's Box is now open...

 

[edsinger]

I thought it would be pertinent to this forum...

 

[Chase515]

I was working up in michigan a few years back and drove past his prision. He looks kinda small now considering what you can learn on the internet. Bag of hellium over the head

 

[Fletch]

Now you get to the point, in this case medical treatment can be stopped and the patient made to feel no pain...

...

Pain can be negated so that is mute...

I think you mean "moot".

And , for a couple of reasons.

Pain is a subjective experience. We don't even know if coma patients are in pain. All we know is that they look relatively peaceful.

Add to that the War on Drugs and its effect on pain management, which anyone who's looked into it knows has been disastrous. Terminally ill patients are given just enough to not be driven insane from their suffering, never enough to eliminate it or end it.

Finally, if your argument against assisted suicide is completely theocratic in nature...

 

[Fletch]

Kevorkian, convicted in assisted suicides, dies - TODAY News - TODAY.com

He was quite possibly the most compassionate person I've ever seen.

Are you kidding me?

Did I give the impression I was kidding?

It sickens me that when it comes to medicine of all sorts, we have allowed paranoia to rule the day to the point where we now treat our dogs better than our fellow human beings.

 

[Duncan]

Don't get mad at me but my thoughts are that if you help someone die you commit murder(unless they are trying to kill you). If you want to end your own life that is one thing but to help someone end their life is another.

I Fully disagree ... yes under the law of this land it is a form or murder .
But the intent , moral reason and emotional frame of mind should or would be totally different between the two .

Thanks
Duncan

 

[Ogre]

Did I give the impression I was kidding?

It sickens me that when it comes to medicine of all sorts, we have allowed paranoia to rule the day to the point where we now treat our dogs better than our fellow human beings.

Absolutely

 

[orange]

IF someone wants to take their own life, then there are many ways to do it without having someone HELP you do it. Period.

No. People can reach a point where they're incapable of anything more strenuous than a whisper.

Now you get to the point, in this case medical treatment can be stopped and the patient made to feel no pain and natural death can occur. You are correct if you assume that I find suicide immoral and selfish. Not just on the effect that it has one those left behind but also the eternal consequences of which I don't decide the outcome.

No. Putting it mildly, pain management is not precisely an exact science. Living with agony and doped to the ears isn't something I'd wish for myself either.. there are tolerance issues with painkillers and assorted side effects, beginning with opiates basically shutting down the digestive system.

I would not sentence anyone to anything, if ones medical condition is that dire then life would be very short minus all the medical attention to continue life.

No. I have personally seen severe terminal cancer progress until it'd almost be easier to list the places where it hasn't metastatized, then apparently stop, with patient surviving for months with painkillers alone.

So you would appreciate having someone in your case commit your murder? Think about what you said. How selfish is that?

Then you would tell someone without hope or chance of recovery, living in extreme agony, wishing to die, that they will continue to suffer because of your religious beliefs. How selfish is that?

Assisted suicide differs from murder because the decision belongs exclusively to the sufferer. The only point in common is that a life ends, and that reeks of intellectual dishonesty. Me, I believe there are worse fates than death, I believe if someone's life is truly their own then they are free to end it, and I believe those that assist in this manner are only compassionate and kind..